Assigned female at birth

Doodledog

trisher

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

No, you are the one who brought in learning difficulties and so on. Your attempts to make this seem discriminatory are ludicrous, really.

I am quite happy to leave things with 'you are invited to come in for a smear test' (leaving out the nonsense about 'assigned at birth') and allowing any questions that might be asked to be answered as they crop up. I do not see how that is discriminatory at all, and as you have come up with nothing to explain how it might be, I can only assume that neither do you.

Doodledog I didn't bring those things into the debate ,you did.
Yesterday
So you seriously think that 'woman' (or just 'please come along for a smear test') would put off transmen, but 'as you have been assigned female at birth' wouldn't make at least be incomprehensible to some women, who would assume that this didn't apply to them?

If you are including those with a learning disability, those in AHDs (particularly if they have low levels of educational attainment) and those from ethnic minorities where levels of English are low, then I think it's a given that a lot of women will be baffled by what is a clumsy phrase at best, and Doublespeak at worst

Great post Doodledog

trisher

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

No, you are the one who brought in learning difficulties and so on. Your attempts to make this seem discriminatory are ludicrous, really.

I am quite happy to leave things with 'you are invited to come in for a smear test' (leaving out the nonsense about 'assigned at birth') and allowing any questions that might be asked to be answered as they crop up. I do not see how that is discriminatory at all, and as you have come up with nothing to explain how it might be, I can only assume that neither do you.

So let's get this straight (I do love these complex and illogical restrictions introduced to try and justify the unjustifiable). Women can need all sorts of support because of learning difficulties, language problems, lack of education etc. But transmen can't.
The test by the way is no longer a smear.
If assigned is a difficult word let's have called or named, what's in a word.

Well the obvious comment after that would probably be "Why? I'm a transman" answer ^You were assigned female at birth.
Meanwhile, down the rabbit hole. . . .

So, now we have the confused transman asking why a smear is needed? Ok, who is being asked? Why can't they just answer, and clear up the 'issue'?

The letter could still just say 'You are invited to come in for a smear', just as it did before this transman transitioned - or does transitioning remove the memory too?

trisher

Rosie51

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

If someone has learning difficulties, language difficulties, a lack of anatomical knowledge that doesn't all disappear when they transition you know!

How do they know that they're a transman if they didn't know they started as a woman?
Assigned yep that's a word on the lips of everyone with learning difficulties, language difficulties, and lack of anatomical knowledge. Do you think these transmen will be presenting themselves for prostate screening because "I'm a transman"?

Learning difficulties - trisher are you really saying transmen with learning difficulties don’t know they are female?
How would they have known they wanted to assume a different gender?
Do transmen with severe learning difficulties not have support who would explain that to them?
You are not being ‘kind’.

Well the obvious comment after that would probably be "Why? I'm a transman" answer ^You were assigned female at birth.
No. The answer is you are female. You were born female and you are still female.
Any reasonable person, male or female, who didn’t recognise the word cervix or cervical, would google it or call the clinic for clarification.
You still appear to be saying that transmen don’t know they are women. I think you do a disservice to transmen.

Rosie51

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

If someone has learning difficulties, language difficulties, a lack of anatomical knowledge that doesn't all disappear when they transition you know!

Do transmen really lose their braincells after transition? They'd answer ""Why? I'm a transman" . They'd have forgotten what they had changed from? That they had been observed to be female at birth, and still had female internal organs unless they'd had them surgically removed? My, who knew?

Doodledog

*It is indeed VioletSky. It's funny though isn't it transwomen are blamed for all sorts of things, transmen are now not permitted any form of language which includes them. That's the trouble with discrimination there's that many rules to apply I can't keep up with them. Still the sun is shining.*

This post makes no sense, in the context of this thread. What rules are being applied here? I have asked why you think that transmen would be put off coming for a test if they were just invited to come in for a test, but you would prefer to include the term 'assigned female at birth', despite your concern for those who have English as a SOL, may be of low educational attainment and/or other barriers to understanding, but you have ignored the question in favour of comments about the weather.

How does 'you have been invited to attend on X date for a smear test' not include transmen? You really seem to be making problems where none exist.

Well the obvious comment after that would probably be "Why? I'm a transman" answer ^You were assigned female at birth.

It is indeed VioletSky. It's funny though isn't it transwomen are blamed for all sorts of things, transmen are now not permitted any form of language which includes them. That's the trouble with discrimination there's that many rules to apply I can't keep up with them. Still the sun is shining.

This post makes no sense, in the context of this thread. What rules are being applied here? I have asked why you think that transmen would be put off coming for a test if they were just invited to come in for a test, but you would prefer to include the term 'assigned female at birth', despite your concern for those who have English as a SOL, may be of low educational attainment and/or other barriers to understanding, but you have ignored the question in favour of comments about the weather.

How does 'you have been invited to attend on X date for a smear test' not include transmen? You really seem to be making problems where none exist.

Oh dear trisher
When you say ‘transmen are now not permitted any form of language which includes them’ it’s only true in your world.

That’s the trouble with your constant discrimination, but as you say, the sun is still shining, so that’s nice trisher.

That’s nice trisher.??

VioletSky

trisher I did post a link to what gender dysphoria is and the impact that can have on what services trans people make use of before.

That's what we need trans inclusive language. It doesn't change us, it just includes them.

We can still say Merry Christmas, sing baa baa blacksheep and refer to ourselves as women. It's a wonderful day

It is indeed VioletSky. It's funny though isn't it transwomen are blamed for all sorts of things, transmen are now not permitted any form of language which includes them. That's the trouble with discrimination there's that many rules to apply I can't keep up with them. Still the sun is shining.

Doodledog, we still seem to be missing alternative definitions of man and woman.
Is that because man is male and woman is female - and the additional mention of gametes serves to confirm that?

trisher I did post a link to what gender dysphoria is and the impact that can have on what services trans people make use of before.

That's what we need trans inclusive language. It doesn't change us, it just includes them.

We can still say Merry Christmas, sing baa baa blacksheep and refer to ourselves as women. It's a wonderful day

I’m in the sane group too.

Indeed Doodledog.

And Smileless, I'm quite content, they're all as sane as me ?

Sorry - the first sentence of that post is not my words - it is a quote and should have been emboldened.

I don't see why including a phrase which would certainly encourage one of those categories to use the service would in fact put off other women.

So you seriously think that 'woman' (or just 'please come along for a smear test') would put off transmen, but 'as you have been assigned female at birth' wouldn't make at least be incomprehensible to some women, who would assume that this didn't apply to them?

If you are including those with a learning disability, those in AHDs (particularly if they have low levels of educational attainment) and those from ethnic minorities where levels of English are low, then I think it's a given that a lot of women will be baffled by what is a clumsy phrase at best, and Doublespeak at worst.

Given that transmen must know what being female entails (as they have opted out of what they perceive to be 'behaving as' such), I can see no reason, other than 'I refuse to answer to that' why transmen wouldn't understand a simple invitation to a smear. There is no need to explain that the invitation has been issued because they are, (or once were, if you prefer) women - or perhaps you could explain why doing so is necessary?

I’m still waiting for the proof that being a transman means they don’t know if they are really female and they don’t know if they have a cervix.
Your implication that trans men are thick is unkind and untrue but . . .
That’s nice trisher.

Re your post yesterday @ 18.03 Doodledog, no you're definitely nor losing the plot but if you, I and all of the brilliant posters on this thread are, to quote the words from a Bowie song. 'I'd rather be with the madmen walking free'.

@trisher the "are you having a laugh" comment was to do with your suggestion that a "large proportion" of the 3.5 million women who do not take up cervical screening in England are trans men.