Parents deliberately winding up children

I don't think there is vitriol. There is a difference of opinion between those who believe that customers have a right to a peaceful meal and those who believe that we should live and let live.

Nobody has said that children should be seen and not heard, and I don't think anyone has said that they shouldn't be taken to restaurants - just that they should be expected to behave when they are there. Most people would accept children forgetting to be quiet from time to time, but there is a difference between that and shrieking loudly.

Goodbyetoallthat

I clearly need to get out more (I do post pandemic) but I would be more bothered by an adult shouting "cut that out" at another diner than a noisy toddler. Why not just go & ask them to be a bit quieter if they are disturbing you?

He called over (did not shout) 'can you cut that out please? We can't here ourselves think' after 20 minutes of tolerating the screaming.

Grandpanow

GrannyGravy13, this thread not withstanding, I do think the world is getting more tolerant. The vitriol on this thread is becoming the minority view in the wider population it seems. Your GC are lucky to have you in their corner!

Can you point out the vitriol on this thread?

I clearly need to get out more (I do post pandemic) but I would be more bothered by an adult shouting "cut that out" at another diner than a noisy toddler. Why not just go & ask them to be a bit quieter if they are disturbing you?

GrannyGravy13, this thread not withstanding, I do think the world is getting more tolerant. The vitriol on this thread is becoming the minority view in the wider population it seems. Your GC are lucky to have you in their corner!

I'm sure no one would suggest you not taking your GC to restaurants GG. The OP is about a father deliberately winding up his toddler to the extent that the child's screams and laughter disrupt other diners.

When it was pointed out to him, he stopped and the child calmed down so clearly the issue was the father's behaviour, and not any underlying condition with his child.

But that applies equally to other customers. I have a nephew on the spectrum. A toddler constantly being encouraged to scream louder and louder by his father would cause him huge distress and his family would have to pay for their uneaten meal and leave.

I am just extremely uncomfortable with making assumptions. We have no idea of other peoples family dynamics, we have no idea of what they are or have gone through that day.

We have a GC who is neurodiverse and it’s looking like another one may also be on the spectrum . Should we not take them to restaurants?

For those that say no, I will post where we are going, as they are part of our family and will be included, whether that’s at a Harvester (highly unlikely), Italian, Indian, Chinese or a Michelin starred establishment.

(All of the above have been understanding and accommodating)

One of mine did too GrannyGravy and even after it was fixed he struggled to adjust his volume and he has never been able to filter out background noise having not grown up with it, so talks over it.

I remember a teacher really hammering me once, all about how he never listened to her, was too loud, didn't stop talking when she asked for quiet. It took a while for her to run out of steam. I just said, no you are the one who doesn't listen, I told you he is deaf. Then I walked out.

Vintagejazz

The concern was about getting a rude or dismissive or defensive response. My friend used to run a restaurant and they preferred problems to be raised with staff rather than customers getting into altercations, which happened several times.

Exactly.

A restaurant owner once pointed out to me that sometimes, it's the complainant who's in the wrong and this has to be diplomatically conveyed to them.

I'm sure no owner / management want shouting matches in their restaurants- other diners would quite possibly be put off going back. It is their 'house' and so they usually have some protocols in place for dealing with this kind of thing to prevent these situations from getting out of hand.

Personally, I would not have wanted to 'challenge' a man who was obviously lacking in 'social awareness' - which is emotional intelligence. A minor thing, in this instance, but I bet nasty little scenes have developed over less.

One of our AC has a hearing problem, or should I say non-hearing problem, we do say inside voice but they feel picked on when this is said repeatedly.

Probably best not to make assumptions about folks that you do not know.

And you have no idea whether he was NT or not. He may not have even realised he was being so loud. ADHD makes a friend of ours terribly loud and quite frankly, I do find it embarrassing but he has no idea. He will also pipe down if somebody says something but he will gradually increase in volume again. However, if you keep telling him, he starts to feel unwanted and starts to avoid people. We've learned to be tolerant.

tickingbird

This is quite hilarious.

I’m now accused of causing a restaurant to close down

Grandpanow. Please practice what you preach. No need to be kind where I’m concerned but please don’t invent scenarios regarding me and restaurants.

Where’s the OP? Have you lost the will to live yet? ??

Beginning to

Grandpanow

yes he did it well, didn’t he? Some rude person yelling across the restaurant, but he simply quieted down and didn’t stoop to their level.

Where did I say anyone yelled rudely across the restaurant?

Exactly Br4ve no one's suggested that children 'should be seen and not heard' but it's the responsibility of parents to teach their children social skills and I agree, that in this case it was the father who was behaving like a child.

Perhaps so, but part of interaction is teaching social skills to children from a young age. I don't mean that a child has to behave like an adult, but the father in that scenario was behaving like a child ( in a not positive way). I have taught young people for many years, and you can tell the difference between those whose parents have taught children how to behave in different environments, and those who think every place is their playground or living room..

Smileless2012

The OP says the diner "called over", no mention of yelling across the restaurant.

Child having fun with father...a big no because of the noise level. Another customer calling over the restaurant because he was irritated acceptable. There is a certain irony.

This is quite hilarious.

I’m now accused of causing a restaurant to close down

Grandpanow. Please practice what you preach. No need to be kind where I’m concerned but please don’t invent scenarios regarding me and restaurants.

Where’s the OP? Have you lost the will to live yet? ??

Grandpanow

yes he did it well, didn’t he? Some rude person yelling across the restaurant, but he simply quieted down and didn’t stoop to their level.

Decent man and father

The OP says the diner "called over", no mention of yelling across the restaurant.

Exactly Grandpanow

yes he did it well, didn’t he? Some rude person yelling across the restaurant, but he simply quieted down and didn’t stoop to their level.

Be kind. Be reasonable. Don't think too highly of yourself. Good advice for the father to adhere to in the future.

Restaurants should have two areas:
1. If you are ok to seat with family with kids
2. No kids

tickingbird

Grandpanow

Based on the comments here, she’s not unusual for this thread. Perhaps for the wider population

I haven’t seen any comments on here that would lead anyone to believe certain posters think service industry staff are their personal servants.

As for getting up and leaving, that’s the last thing the restaurant would want. Strange that you would rather they lose custom over such a trivial matter - it’s people’s livelihoods.

People leave restaurants all the time for a variety of reasons. I suppose you speak from experience, but I’m lucky enough to have never caused the immediate shut down of a place by picking up dinner at a different venue that evening.

The burn out rates in the service industry, have , however been linked to economic problems for diners. When polled, demanding and rude customers have been cited as a reason for leaving the majority of the time.

Be kind. Be reasonable. Don’t think too highly of yourself. This approach leads to much fewer altercations with other patrons (in my experience, absolutely none, in fact).