So called jokes about rape!

I don’t think the naming of a specific person as a target for violence comes under the heading of Free Speech.

If I named a poster here on Gransnet and said I would like to assault and kill them my post would rightly be taken down. Actually somebody once suggested that I should hang myself, another poster reported it and it was quickly removed.

It’s a kind of bullying.

I didn't see the performance .

I have seen his other performances and found them offensive .

I stand by calling Frankie Boyle disgusting .

I can think of far worse words to describe him .

I don't suppose the Queen nor Holly Willoughby are laughing and neither is any woman , who has been raped .

I tell you what this free speech thing is a pain in the butt. I cant believe I am defending FB s rights . Am sure he will be very grateful. However the same rights needs to be applied to all and that includes jokes FB doesnt like.

Galaxy

The risk of policing jokes is higher than the risk of letting unpleasant stuff through.
I suspect a lot of the 'I am challenging the narrative' stuff will be viewed in a different way in years to come. I think Little Britain tried that tactic when people started to say er not sure about this. So it may be that we view the likes of FB in the way we view sone of the old style mil joke comedians, in years to come or he may be hailed as a progressive feminist who knows.
But who would make the decisions of what is allowed. Who gets to make that choice.

On balance, I'm more worried about "policing" than I am about being offended.

As you say - who gets to make that choice?

I can recover from being offended - I can respond. No-one can do anything if they are 'policed' because they won't have a voice.

It was reported in several more reputable newspaper - including The Scotsman? so I think the Daily Nail reference is a red herring - it’s not true because it was in the Daily Mail.

Well yes, but heard and objected to by a large number of people at the Latitude Festival who questioned him in person at his later book signing.

So he did make a joke about killing and raping Holly Willoughby.

I wonder if the people defending him would defend a someone who publicly named their granddaughter as a someone they would like to rape and kill.

volver

Dear me.

So much deconstruction of a monologue that nobody has even heard.

So a woman, or somebody called Dennis that I've never heard of, can say the same thing, and that's acceptable, but not Boyle because he doesn't look good and he's Scottish.

but not Boyle because he doesn't look good and he's Scottish.

Being as objective as is possible, I cannot see anything wrong with the way FB looks. Being subjective - his appearance is ordinary - I could even suggest he 'looks cuddly' in the way that some men with beards possess that attribute.

Being Scottish is irrelevant, too. Although, personally, I'm quite partial to Scottish people in general. And the Irish, especially those from the RoI. But that's just a quirk of mine.

I wouldn't comment on the "monologue' because I haven't heard it - only the DM's interpretation of it and like much of the DM's content, probably needs to be taken with a good pinch of the proverbial... "Click-Bait" editorials are not usually reliable sources of information.

The risk of policing jokes is higher than the risk of letting unpleasant stuff through.
I suspect a lot of the 'I am challenging the narrative' stuff will be viewed in a different way in years to come. I think Little Britain tried that tactic when people started to say er not sure about this. So it may be that we view the likes of FB in the way we view sone of the old style mil joke comedians, in years to come or he may be hailed as a progressive feminist who knows.
But who would make the decisions of what is allowed. Who gets to make that choice.

Frankie Boyle is funny. Often.

Sometimes he's not.

Calling someone a disgusting person is pretty low though. Even though you don't like their joke about the Queen. Were you watching or did you get your indignation second hand?

Frankie Boyle is a disgusting person .
He is not funny .

It is estimated that one in four women , one in sixth children and one in 20 men have been sexually assaulted in the UK .

Anyone , who has experienced it often has a lifetime of coping with post traumatic stress disorder .

Apart from that , the joke about the Queen having a haunted
p---y has to be one of the worst " jokes " that I've ever heard .

I know (and like) Frankie personally a little. Friends of friends etc. And his stage persona is absolutely that, a persona. But someone with a long rep for edgy material is never going to get the benefit of the doubt in general on highly sensitive material. I think he gets a raw deal in comparison to Jimmy Carr, who doesn’t attempt anything clever or subversive with edgy material, he just throws out the worst things he can think of and thinks it makes him funny. But I do think the reference to Holly, a real person, was probably not the wisest here. It makes the whole line of humour feel…. personalised? in a way that’s disturbing. Which is partially the aim, to disturb, but still. I have always thought the Harvey Price material was beyond the line of being funny. But everyone has their own taste.

May disagree even.

We are talking about comedy and in particular in relation to women. We are talking about the difference between punching up and down. You make disagree that's up to you.

Dear me.

So much deconstruction of a monologue that nobody has even heard.

So a woman, or somebody called Dennis that I've never heard of, can say the same thing, and that's acceptable, but not Boyle because he doesn't look good and he's Scottish.

Thank you muffin, those examples are really useful.

It’s a retake on an old Peep Show joke. Which has a very different context and dynamic so is actually funny in a dark way. But then Jesse Armstrong is a much better writer than Frankie Boyle.

The Peep Show joke is a line from Mark’s internal monologue, Mark obviously being a fictional character unlike Holly Willoughby, and also where he’s positioned as the victim, which gives the entire joke a different power dynamic and isn’t punching down. The scenario is Mark is wildly afraid of teenagers in hoodies and is convinced he, a middle aged man, will be the victim of gang violence. He is anxiously ruminating on this and internally remakes “They’ll probably rape and kill me. I hope they kill me before they rape me, though. That way, I sort of win”.

Recontextualised as FB has, the joke starts tacking much closer to the infamous “Girls Scream Aloud” case and becomes greatly distasteful.

There are very few genuinely funny jokes about this subject, and all of them are very dark and require a certain dynamic and frankly a very bitter recognition to work. There’s Sarah Silverman’s notorious lines on the subject: “Tell rape jokes if you want. Who’s going to complain? The rape victims in the audience? Rape victims don’t even report their rapes.” Which, by inverting the trope about the “easily offended” and in the context of the drastically poor rape reporting rate with which we are all familiar, suddenly punches up as a joke. It’s very dark but the rape victims are not the target of the joke; the clueless clowns telling them are.

There’s also the legendary Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia scene, “The Implication”, which is probably the best explanation of sexually coercive behaviour ever committed to television. The genius of the joke is that Dennis, like all the men who use sexually coercive behaviour, is fully and intentionally aware that the behaviour is coercive, and also that that threat of potential violence is what makes the coercion work. “She could say no. But she’s not gonna say no, because of The Implication.” It’s a scene much used to explain to the (intentionally?) clueless about how and why sexual coercion works so often on women. Mac pushes back, only to realise that yep, Dennis actually means everything he says. Dark as hell, but…. Everyone knows a Dennis. Dennis in the show is just completely open about it. Amazing trope inversion.

youtu.be/-yUafzOXHPE

Just read the article about Mock The Week finishing after the next series, and Dara O Briain talks about how competitive Frankie Boyle and Russell Howard were. I certainly remember FB being very competitive, and not really funny at all, to the point where I muted the TV whenever he opened his mouth. Very often it was on mute for pretty much half of the show. Whatever his reasons for this particular bit of his latest stand up, he certainly didn't need to mention Holly Willoughby by name. It must be truly upsetting for her to see her name in the papers linked to him talking about having non consensual sex with her, and killing her, no matter what the context is.

but not when it's personalised
Absolutely!!

Forestflame

Bellanonna

I’ve nothing at all against Scotland or the Scot’s, but I thoroughly dislike that man and wholeheartedly agree with most of the comments on here. I remember how cruel he was about Rebecca Adlington’s nose, liking her to a dolphin. Poor Rebecca - I think she had a rhinoplasty after that. He stoops very low, that man.

Saw him on the Last Leg a couple of weeks ago. He was cracking jokes about people dying. Seriously unfunny individual.

I think you can make jokes about the 'human condition' - which could include death / dying / sickness, etc - in the abstract... but not when it's personalised. And certainly not when the joke is at the expense of an individual - like Katie Price's son who, in the innocence of his condition, cannot know that he is being mocked. That's about as low as you can get.

It wasn't a joke, it was simply a smart-arse deriding a child with a disability for a laugh.

It takes intelligence, awareness, and wit to make self-depreciating jokes about sensitive subjects - and a kindness of spirit and mind. Anyone can make jokes about another's misfortune - school children do it all the time... Fortunately, they usually mature and grow out of that phase.

Bellanonna

I’ve nothing at all against Scotland or the Scot’s, but I thoroughly dislike that man and wholeheartedly agree with most of the comments on here. I remember how cruel he was about Rebecca Adlington’s nose, liking her to a dolphin. Poor Rebecca - I think she had a rhinoplasty after that. He stoops very low, that man.

Saw him on the Last Leg a couple of weeks ago. He was cracking jokes about people dying. Seriously unfunny individual.

Callistemon21

^I've got a small tub of salt that I keep by to pinch when I read the DM^
???

I'm a salt thrower too but have never heard of it being thrown if anyone reads the DM!!

... well, I don't throw the whole tub you know... just a little pinch whilst reading some of their 'exclusive' stories...

Frankie Boyle has insulted just about every sort of person you can think of. It's his selling point. That's why people go to see him. If you don't like it you don't have to listen to him. He was funny , but very rude when he did his New World Order show on TV.

Lucca

Callistemon21

Oh yes, I'd forgotten that.

Could you post the recipe again please Lucca

With pleasure.
www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/express_lasagne_51375

Thanks Lucca

Excellent post Dickens
Attacking the disabled, the vulnerable, mocking people's appearance is beyond the pale and, quite honestly, were it anyone else, they would probably find themselves in serious trouble for hate speech.

I've got a small tub of salt that I keep by to pinch when I read the DM
???

I'm a salt thrower too but have never heard of it being thrown if anyone reads the DM!!

I'm nor going to comment on what Boyle said - because I don't know the full comment, nor the context - only what the Daily Mail reported he said, and I've got a small tub of salt that I keep by to pinch when I read the DM.

What I don't like about him though is that on two occasions I know of, he's made jokes at the expense of other people's disadvantages over which they have no control. Rebecca Adlington's nose - that was just plain nasty. Katie Price's son - even worse because the boy didn't have the capacity to hit back. It's one thing to mock someone over their traits and beliefs, but ridiculing someone because of their disability or appearance indicates a rather unpleasant mindset, so I personally don't care how long ago it was, he's got a mentality / make up that I find repulsive.

Further, I also think he's wasted his talent, he is perceptive, has a really good grasp of the English language and is able to use it in an articulate and 'biting' mode when he's writing or talking on the political landscape. But punching below the belt has diminished him in my eyes.

Some of us have red lines. Others don't care much one way or the other, and some would urge that not 'getting over it' is narrow-minded or even obsessive. So be it, that's the way people are.. FB crossed the boundary line as far a I am concerned.