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Should we stand up for ourselves? Family feud
(119 Posts)I would greatly appreciate the wise counsel of you lovely gransnet members, on this distressing family situation myself and DH find ourselves in. Some background is necessary, and for this reason I’ll apologise now for the length of the post.
We have two DS. DS1 is in his early 40s and married to a lovely woman of a similar age. They are child-free out of choice.
DS2 is mid 30’s and has 2 DC with his fiancée. Again, a lovely girl, the vast majority of the time. We are very fond of her, she’s a wonderful mum, although we feel she does have a little growing up to do. She’s a fair bit younger than DS - in her mid 20’s. We see the grandchildren multiple times a week and help out a lot, which we are only too happy to do.
Our DS are, in the nicest way, possible, chalk and cheese. DS1 is a very calm, laid back chap, DS2 has always been in the middle of some drama or other and can be argumentative. He gave us many sleepless nights when he was growing up . They rarely talk, have little in common. It’s been this way since they were children It’s not that they don’t get on as such, they just have little to talk to each other about whenever they do speak. And sadly, the family situation I’m about to explain is only serving to push them further apart.
For some unfathomable reason, which we cannot quite understand, our youngest DS’s fiancé detests our elder DS’s wife.
Myself and DH, and other family members feel that this stems from jealousy. Eldest DS and his wife both have good careers and therefore a good standard of living, own house, holidays and the like.
Whereas our younger DS, although a hard worker, it’s in a lower paid job, and I definitely struggle, with him, having to fully support his fiancée and the two DC.
At elder DS’s wedding a few years back, we over, heard some nasty comments made by younger son’s fiancé, about the wedding,, whereas we knew deep down, this is the sort of wedding she would have wanted, so we feel the jealousy started there.
We have noticed that eldest sons wife has always tried her best to be hospitable towards her, despite the tension.
DH and I have tried to stay out of this whole situation because it is between the two girls . Sadly, things have escalated recently. This coincides with our eldest son having not long moved house to a larger property and also his wife having a new car. (I will add, they are not bragging people, very humble and deserve everything they have as they both work hard!)
Unfortunately, we now seem to find ourselves drawn into this, as younger son’s fiance is making some extremely untrue and very cruel remarks - telling elder son’s wife that we hate her. This is absolutely not the case, we love both of the girls very much.
Elder son’s wife seem to have reached the end of her tether recently, and, although a very emotionally mature lady, she phoned us up last week in tears, due to these unkind remarks about her on social media.
She feels that we should be doing something to step in at this point, because the comments have now involved us, and these untrue claims.
However, DH and myself do not want to get involved. If we do, we know exactly what will happen - youngest son and his fiancée will stop us seeing our grandchildren. I can both be immature at times, and this is a threat that has been made to us before. So we do find ourselves placating them a lot of the time.
However, at the same time, we hate the fact that the fiancée is making up a complete lot of rubbish about us. We do not hate our older sons wife, she is part of the family. We feel that all this unnecessary hatred stems from jealousy, from the things our eldest son and his wife have, which the younger ones don’t.
DH had a very long and frank discussion with elder son’s wife and told her honestly that we cannot speak to the younger son and his partner about this because we know what will happen - and we cannot bear to lose contact with our grandchildren. We had longed for grandchildren for years, they are the lights of our lives and we can not imagine our world without them around. Our daughter in law was very upset by this and feels that we should be stepping in and defending ourselves and pointing out that this is unacceptable.
We resent the fact we are being dragged into this, and the lies that are being told!
But at the same time, we know the consequences of speaking up to our youngest son. Are we right to stay out put this, for the sake of not losing contact with our grandkids, or should we speak up?
It's the collateral damage that's the issue
You have lost other family members and so have I
I haven't lost a single family relationship due to any behaviour I have exhibited or any problem between myself and them. (Not children tho, all adults)
I have only lost family because of the lies told about myself to cover one person's abuse.
I probably come across as a very opinionated and outspoken person online. Before estrangement I was extremely quiet, non confrontational and didn't force myself on family or notice how my mother worked to keep us apart.
I'm establishing myself as somewhere in between those things in person now I'm out of that relationship. Healing is always an average of 1 step back for every 2 steps forward 
It is of course a difficult situation you find yourself in, but there are some facts to consider. Using contact with your grandchildren as a form of blackmail , to stop you commenting on things is putting them in a position of power over you. This could continue for as long as the grandchildren are young enough to be under their control. You have to live with yourselves and your own reaction and attitude to their behaviour. Over the years you could find things getting worse and be less able to deal with the situation. For me , I have to look back and see that I have behaved in the best way I can and could not stand by and ignore lies and be pushed into being silent about things and words said that I know to be lies. If you continue to accept such things you are condoning their behaviour and this will encourage them to continue and even escalate their wrongdoing. So , even though it is really difficult, I would have to stand up for my beliefs, tell them when you know that what has been said is not true and that while you still love them all, you cannot stand by and see such lies making everyone unhappy. If they block you seeing the grandchildren, that is very sad, but as you say , you provide a lot of help and it is unlikely that they would be prepared to do without all your help continually. They could take the huff and keep away for a few weeks but if you remain strong and they see that their blackmailing attitude is not working things could improve. If they are involved in a church, or some form of groups such as clubs of some sort, there may be a leader or counsellor who might possibly be able to mediate in the situation and being outside the family would not be part of the situation and could show them how their attitude is leading to breaking up families, but also setting their children a very bad example, teaching them that telling lies and emotionally blackmailing family is not the way to behave. Do you have anyone who is respected by both children who might be able to get them together and discuss things, where at the least it will show the girl causing the trouble that you all know what she is doing and that you are not conned into believing her lies. At the very worse you may not see a lot of your grandchildren until they are of an age to make up their own mind and be able to have a relationship with you quite separately from their parents. if they made it difficult to see them, hopefully you can still write to them, emails etc but also written letters are good to receive and the children may enjoy having them. If your letters only covered the things they were involved with and no comment on the parents situation, they may be allowed to have them. I think looking for a mediator might be the best possibility for now but I think you would find it very difficult to spend years condoning such behaviour and it could also spoil your relationship with the other couple as you could be seen as not being supportive of them. If you put it into another sphere, when you were working, if someone at work behaved in this way would you accept it? If the answer is no to that then you do not deserve to have to be put in this situation within your family. It is very sad and I am sure you will find it difficult to deal with. One possibility that could help you choose is to take two pieces of paper and write down the good and bad outcomes if you continue as you are and if you refuse to accept the status quo. You could both write down everything you think of , both in the short and long term and look at how you might cope with the outcome. You have not caused this situation and you do not want it to continue but you need to be able to look in the mirror and see that you are satisfied with what you see. I wish you all the best with whatever you decide and hope that you will have a good outcome.
You put that very well VS and having experienced people who are drama centric your description certainly resonated with me.
I also have empathy for those who seem hell bent on a road of self destruction and/or the destruction of what would be loving and supportive relationships, if only they'd let them.
There are times as I think you and I know only too well, when it's better to walk away or to allow that person to leave your life because you're better off without them in it.
Smileless2012
Does anyone posting about a personal situation that's upsetting them never hope to receive support for their opinions on the matter? I very much doubt it.
I agree it's disadvantageous if opinions that differ are ignored but that isn't always or necessarily the case. Where that does happen, I agree there's no room for growth or change.
Sometimes a situation can't be improved. Yes, negative feelings may be amplified but that may help someone to realise that the best thing is to let go and move on.
I'm not sure what you mean by point 4. Who makes up the mass you've referred too? People only welcoming views that align with theirs is certainly not uncommon and I'm not sure why that should make some trying to engage, feel pushed out.
Of course support comes in many different forms and as well as suggesting changes are needed, that support maybe in the form of saying there's nothing you can do to change this.
Just what I have experienced Smileless
Sometimes simply talking from your own experience or perspective can be misunderstood and lead to others being defensive or even actually attacking.
That kinda shows my point though because this happens in families too. That's why listening and reflecting before answering is so important.
In a family I should be able to say "I don't like x" and for the other person to say, "I have heard you, I'm sorry x hurt you and I will not do x"
Of course we all come across people in life who... I don't know how best to put it... are drama centric and like to run with their feelings... the perpetual victim type who outwardly cause their own misery and inwardly believe they are innocent or at least justified...
But apart from staying away from those people I still feel a lot of empathy for them and wish they could heal from whatever created their need to sabotage themselves and others. Also that they knew how to really be happy
I agree Cp43. Sometimes not condemning is seen as condoning.
Does anyone posting about a personal situation that's upsetting them never hope to receive support for their opinions on the matter? I very much doubt it.
I agree it's disadvantageous if opinions that differ are ignored but that isn't always or necessarily the case. Where that does happen, I agree there's no room for growth or change.
Sometimes a situation can't be improved. Yes, negative feelings may be amplified but that may help someone to realise that the best thing is to let go and move on.
I'm not sure what you mean by point 4. Who makes up the mass you've referred too? People only welcoming views that align with theirs is certainly not uncommon and I'm not sure why that should make some trying to engage, feel pushed out.
Of course support comes in many different forms and as well as suggesting changes are needed, that support maybe in the form of saying there's nothing you can do to change this.
I think that posting in the hope to recieve support in the form of opinions that match your own is disadvantageous.
I'm sure we can all create echo Chambers where our own thoughts and ideas are all reflected back to us, indeed, I've seen plenty of examples.
The problems with that:
1. Sometimes that view or opinion is not one that will resolve their personal situation.
2. There is no room for growth or change.
3. Nothing improves, negative feelings amay actually be amplified, that sort of thinking leads only to repetition
4. Others trying to engage feel pushed out by the mass of those who only welcome views that align with theirs
5. Support comes in many different forms, sometimes support is saying, you need to change x to achieve y
DIL can easily block the younger one from her social media account.
Screenshot the nasty jealous remarks and show your son - he should step up and speak to his fiancée. He might feel inadequate if he can’t provide the higher standards of living his fiancée obviously covets.
You should not roll-over and ignore her comments it makes you look as if you agree. They obviously need your help with gc so she’d be very silly to cause herself and your son difficulty. But at least he might man up and tell her it’s just the wrong way to behave.
'Applying for access to a grandchild
If you are having difficulty maintaining contact with your grandchildren, you can apply for access through your local District Court. Access means you will have a legal right to direct contact with the child, which may include overnight stays (sleepovers)'
This comes from an Irish website on grandpasrents' rights - no doubt you have something similar in the UK, as you've always been a bit ahead of us legislature-wise.
Goingtobeagranny and Smileless
👏👏
I totally agree Goingtobeagranny. 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing'.
Years ago I was involved in a similar family argument. I was the innocent party but no one defended me because they didn’t want to get involved or upset the other person…but what they did was upset me instead. I still mention it from time to time just so they know how hurt I was. 🤣 In my opinion you should always do the right thing, turning a blind eye is as bad as doing it or saying it yourself.
Smileless2012
posted too soon. Some may find it supportive if opinions being expressed match their own.
I have so many issues with this I'm going to have to go away and think about it!
posted too soon. Some may find it supportive if opinions being expressed match their own.
It doesn't sound as if the OP "loves both girls very much" (and who could blame her from the information we have here) but perhaps the fiancee feels second best?
It depends I suppose on the name used, in what context and of course if the one whose relative is being called names objects.
Spoiled
Am I the only one who wouldn't tolerate strangers calling my children or children in law names even if I did need advice on how to handle those relationships?
So off-putting
I would get very upset if anyone called my mother names when I was dealing with her behaviour before estrangement, she was my family
Surely name calling isn't productive or even cathartic coming from strangers and won't help in any way
What a mess and I feel for you but the thing is you’ve been dragged in to this whether you like it or not and I think you have to just be firm and fair and say ‘we don’t appreciate being dragged into something that is nothing to do with us and if things are being said about us that are untrue then it has to stop’.
Youre not to blame because someone is petty and jealous, also you’re not to be punished for just telling the truth, after all if you keep quiet and hope it will blow over what will the next threat be?
You can’t be held hostage all your life because someone is so screwed up they just want to go to war. Let them, they will soon learn that lesson!
The threat of being stopped from seeing the GC is working so far so no doubt will be used in the future.
I agree that the d.i.l. sounds like a spiteful madam tickingbird.
Personally, I cannot understand why some people get so obsessive over grandchildren. I love all of mine but, unless they would suffer, I would never allow myself to be held to ransom over them. I also wouldn’t accept someone telling lies about me without saying anything. I totally understand why your older DIL is upset that you’re refusing to say anything just because the other one has children. The message being “it doesn’t matter how lovely you are, you haven’t provided us with DGC”.
Maybe just accept that you’ll lose your older son and wife over this and that you’ll continue to be held to ransom by younger son and DIL over access to dgc. You say they’ve threatened before so. doubtless, they’ll do it again. You say younger DIL is lovely, she sounds a spiteful madam to me.
I'm just chucking this in here, not really helping with your dilemma, but its kind of a cautionary tale ... my very touchy and difficult ex DIL took umbrage when I once asked if her parents could look after my then 4yr old GD. I was working full time in a stressful and demanding 50hr+ a week job, but also picking up my beloved GD from nursery on Friday afternoon, and keeping her till Sunday evening. This started when she was 1 yr old and my son walked out on them. I loved her and we went on amazing outings and lovely things together. But I sometimes felt I needed a break. So having broached the subject, DIL told me if I didn't want to have GD every week then I needn't have her at all! I was devastated and so must the 4 Yr old have been, after 3 yrs of spending more time with me than with her mother.
I didnt see or hear from them again until GD was 14, she is 19 now and those missing years made it impossible to restore any kind of relationship with her. I think I've seen her maybe a dozen times in these past 5 yrs, she is a stranger to me now. It was heart rending and I've never really got over it. She was my first GC, and very special to me. I am fortunate that I now have 2 more wonderful GC whom I adore and see regular have a lovely relationship with. But losing the oldest one like that totally broke my heart and must have left her completely bewildered that suddenly I was gone from her life. I see DIL occasionally as she lives close by, we speak but I can never forgive her for how she behaved and how it must have turned GD's world upside down.
Hithere
That is true of course, looking from the position of the insecure younger girl, even if they aren’t true, she may think they are.
But she is a troubled girl, she is manipulative and unpleasant, and I don’t think any relationship with her will stand the test of time anyway.
And we don't know what the lies are, they might have a source of truth
Stay well away from drama, let your sons take care of their relationships.
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