I would greatly appreciate the wise counsel of you lovely gransnet members, on this distressing family situation myself and DH find ourselves in. Some background is necessary, and for this reason I’ll apologise now for the length of the post.
We have two DS. DS1 is in his early 40s and married to a lovely woman of a similar age. They are child-free out of choice.
DS2 is mid 30’s and has 2 DC with his fiancée. Again, a lovely girl, the vast majority of the time. We are very fond of her, she’s a wonderful mum, although we feel she does have a little growing up to do. She’s a fair bit younger than DS - in her mid 20’s. We see the grandchildren multiple times a week and help out a lot, which we are only too happy to do.
Our DS are, in the nicest way, possible, chalk and cheese. DS1 is a very calm, laid back chap, DS2 has always been in the middle of some drama or other and can be argumentative. He gave us many sleepless nights when he was growing up . They rarely talk, have little in common. It’s been this way since they were children It’s not that they don’t get on as such, they just have little to talk to each other about whenever they do speak. And sadly, the family situation I’m about to explain is only serving to push them further apart.
For some unfathomable reason, which we cannot quite understand, our youngest DS’s fiancé detests our elder DS’s wife.
Myself and DH, and other family members feel that this stems from jealousy. Eldest DS and his wife both have good careers and therefore a good standard of living, own house, holidays and the like.
Whereas our younger DS, although a hard worker, it’s in a lower paid job, and I definitely struggle, with him, having to fully support his fiancée and the two DC.
At elder DS’s wedding a few years back, we over, heard some nasty comments made by younger son’s fiancé, about the wedding,, whereas we knew deep down, this is the sort of wedding she would have wanted, so we feel the jealousy started there.
We have noticed that eldest sons wife has always tried her best to be hospitable towards her, despite the tension.
DH and I have tried to stay out of this whole situation because it is between the two girls . Sadly, things have escalated recently. This coincides with our eldest son having not long moved house to a larger property and also his wife having a new car. (I will add, they are not bragging people, very humble and deserve everything they have as they both work hard!)
Unfortunately, we now seem to find ourselves drawn into this, as younger son’s fiance is making some extremely untrue and very cruel remarks - telling elder son’s wife that we hate her. This is absolutely not the case, we love both of the girls very much.
Elder son’s wife seem to have reached the end of her tether recently, and, although a very emotionally mature lady, she phoned us up last week in tears, due to these unkind remarks about her on social media.
She feels that we should be doing something to step in at this point, because the comments have now involved us, and these untrue claims.
However, DH and myself do not want to get involved. If we do, we know exactly what will happen - youngest son and his fiancée will stop us seeing our grandchildren. I can both be immature at times, and this is a threat that has been made to us before. So we do find ourselves placating them a lot of the time.
However, at the same time, we hate the fact that the fiancée is making up a complete lot of rubbish about us. We do not hate our older sons wife, she is part of the family. We feel that all this unnecessary hatred stems from jealousy, from the things our eldest son and his wife have, which the younger ones don’t.
DH had a very long and frank discussion with elder son’s wife and told her honestly that we cannot speak to the younger son and his partner about this because we know what will happen - and we cannot bear to lose contact with our grandchildren. We had longed for grandchildren for years, they are the lights of our lives and we can not imagine our world without them around. Our daughter in law was very upset by this and feels that we should be stepping in and defending ourselves and pointing out that this is unacceptable.
We resent the fact we are being dragged into this, and the lies that are being told!
But at the same time, we know the consequences of speaking up to our youngest son. Are we right to stay out put this, for the sake of not losing contact with our grandkids, or should we speak up?
I'm so sad for you what an awful situation to be in like others I would try and stay out of it and let them sort it out however it does sound like the younger one is jealous and manipulative I would have to speak to her with regards to telling lies about you don't be fooled by thinking it will just blow over
I wouldn’t be able to keep out of this situation.
The fiancée sounds like a jealous young mother full of envy. Understandably she wants more for her children but she chose your son. Your grandchildren mean a lot to you and you to them. Why would a loving mother threaten to deprive them of that contact to hurt you?you can’t win but keeping quiet is seeming to your son’s wife as though you are siding with the fiancée. Don’t be surprised if she cuts off contact with you. She is very hurt at your seeming denial.
I have an old friend whose two children have not seen or spoken to each other fir over 20 years. She sees them both separately but as she ages and there is no movement from her children the next time they see each other will be at their mothers funeral. It’s all so very sad, and quite frankly the reason the older cut off the younger was so minor it was quite unnecessary .
It hurts my friend very much so it’s not mentioned any more.
I wd get your older dil to delete post and remove younger dil from whatever forum/ sites they are on together and your husband has already told her accusations about you both not true and then leave it and if your younger dil says things to you, which I doubt, you can just say not true and you don’t want to discuss then it will be fine as you said they are rarely if ever in touch
Oh dear, I’ve read all the replies and it seems almost a 50/50 between doing something or doing nothing.
For what it’s worth, here’s my brutally honest opinion:
You have a damaged younger son who has unfortunately found himself an even more damaged fiancée . They do not sound like nice people and seem to have little respect for you. In contrast your older son and his wife sound lovely. In your final years, who would you trust to have your best interests at heart? Certainly not the younger ones.
The waters are muddied by the inclusion of much-loved grandchildren but already they have been used as a stick to beat you with. Chances are that this would be an ongoing threat until they reach their independence years.
As hard as it is for you, I would call the bluff of the younger son and fiancée and tell them that behaviour is upsetting, unfair and unacceptable. If they cut you off from the grandchildren, point out that the grandchildren would be just as upset as you (you did say that the fiancée was a good mother so perhaps this would resonate with her). Also if you see them multiple times a week you must be giving a lot of support that they would then lose by banning you from them.
Do prepare for the worst though, at least initially, and find things to do that replace the time that you would normally
spend with grandchildren, so that you are not moping around, thinking about them.
Regarding the suggestions about relationship therapy; at first I thought that this was a good idea, but then I changed my mind as this could just feed into the drama on which the younger son
and fiancée seem to thrive.
Wishing you the very best of luck with this unpleasant situation.
MissElly, margie has said in her OP regarding not being allowed to see GC that "this is a threat that has been made to us before".
Horrible way to behave, holding your parents/p's.i.l. to ransom and using your children to do so.
The spat between the two women isn't any of your business, but the remark about you and your husband - "telling elder son’s wife that we hate her. " - is your business.
I think I'd be asking the fiancée WHY she thinks you hate your DIL and whatever possessed her to relay this to her, either to her face, if you have the courage, or through social media.
She won't stop you seeing the Gkids.
You will always be in this position while you give your power away - your younger son's fiancee is manipulating and controlling you and it is awful, and if she gets her own way once she will probably use the threat of stopping you seeing the grandchildren to get her own way in other circumstances. She sounds like a monster and I do not believe she can be a good mum if she would stop her children seeing their grandparents for such selfish reasons. She is lying about you - I presume these lies are also on social media? Personally I could not put up with this at any price and whatever it cost me emotionally I could not have the threat of losing my grandchildren held over my head like this. I would have to speak my truth and let the chips fall where they may, and find other concerns to light up my life, apart from my grandchildren. But I do feel for you. It sounds absolutely agonising. By all means go along with the posters who say 'keep out of it' - I 'get' that, but I wonder if it will be possible and if your younger son's fiancee will not eventually demand that you stop seeing your other daughter in law. Much love to you.
I feel your pain I’ve also been in a similar issue with my my oldest son wife my daughter inlaw she made up a load of lies about me and I spoke to my son because it was all lies and he knew there were but it was down to jealousy i didn’t visit their house for a nearly a year he would visit mine with my granddaughter but we sat down and had a chat and clear the air now she is fine. We chat etc it’s not a 100 percent perfect but if’s liveable I see my granddaughters at their house and sleep over to babysit but I couldn’t allow her to make up lies about me and she drag me into something I had to defend myself and if you don’t say anything to her then she could get worse. I get on brilliantly with my other daughter inlaw but she isn’t as forgiving as me but we all going to a family party in June so wish me luck lol but you know what they say you choose your friends but not your family
Wishing you luck Nannashirlz
.
First of all I’d go for a coffee or afternoon tea withDIL no,1, and tell her you have no idea why DDILno.2is lying (yes lying) about what you have said. Reassure her that you love her very much and it hurts you too that DILno.2 seems to be trying to drive a wedge between you. Then if social media is the weapon, DIL no1 should block DILno.2. She can to that to DILno2 who will not know that her vicious comments are not reaching her intended target.If you see DIL no2 making untrue statements you need to ask her why she feels the need to make up hurtful comments, because that does upset you. If she is so snide as to put nasty comments on social media maybe you should block her too. People who really know you will not be swayed. I think it is up to DS1 to say to DS2 that his fiancees comments are upsetting his wife. That way you are not involved in the brothers’ disagreements. As for DILno.2 I doubt very much that she is a lovely girl if she’s being so nasty and putting you in fear of not seeing your grandchildren.
I do see your point, Margie19, but honestly I see your elder DIL's too.
From her point of view, by your refusal to defend yourself against your younger son's partner's untrue allegations, you are tactictly, at least to those who read them on social media, admitting that she is right!
You are also in the eyes of your elder DIL refusing to defend her from these unkind remarks that are untrue, and then to compound the matter, you tell her that speaking out to the unreasonable young woman who is the mother of your grandchildren, you risk no longer being allowed to see said children.
Did it not strike you that this remark is extremely hurtful to a woman who has decided not to have children? A right slap in the face, in fact? You have, again in her eyes, told her that she means less to you than her SIL because she had not given you the grandchildren you so deeply desired.
Presumably, you never meant the remark to be taken in this way - but the world is full of those who tell childless women that they are selfish and egoistic for not bringing children into the world.
Frankly, I think to keep a reasonable relationship with your elder son and his wife, somebody is going to have to say something to the other couple.
It might come better from your elder son, or it might come better from you - I cannot say, not knowing your family.
If you decide to talk to the mother of your grandchildren, ask her nicely what has made her feel the way she does, and why she is saying these things about her SIL and about your relationship to your son's wife. Don't accuse her of lying, obviously, ask for her point of view. Tell her frankly that the situation distresses you, as you feel it makes it impossible for you to invite both your sons with spouses and children at the same time.
If she either won't discuss the matter with you, or sticks to her guns, take the matter up with your son, asking him if he could possibly get his partner to see that nothing of what she is going around saying is actually how you feel, and it is hurting both you and his SIL.
I am sadly afraid that if you try to discuss this with your son's partner, it might well blow up in your face, but if you don't your elder son and his wife are very likely to wash their hands of you.
If you feel that speaking out will do no good, then the only alternative I can see is to tell each couple that you will always be pleased to see them, but will they please phone in advance, as you have no intention of inviting either couple if the other brother and DIL are coming. That way you are signalling that you have been forced to take the situation seriously, and as you intend to continue seeing both your sons, there is no alternative you can see than this plan.
You are being rather cowardly and feeding into the youngest dil’s drama, by not doing anything you are tacitly agreeing with you which add the your older dil’s distress, she has put up with a lot of nasty and unfounded maliciousness for a long time it seems without any support from you which is wrong.
A quiet word with the younger one just to ask her to leave you out of it saying you don’t want to take sides should be your course of action, your conviction that she will curtail your access to your grandchildren really just proves what a nasty , vindictive person she is, youth is not a defence nor is jealousy.
If I was your older dil’s I would be rather angry with you too but then I would be putting the horrible little madam in her place as she thoroughly deserves although you are currently enabling her behaviour
Men are weak when it comes to things like this.. those sons need to face up to each other .. the four of them need to thrash it out. There’s a chance it may resolve things if truths are spoken and grievances aired instead of it all festering in the back ground. . As for weaponising the children , there’s little you can do about that and it will only be temporary .. ( speaks from experience )
A very difficult situation but I don’t see how you can stay out of it. By saying or posting lies about you, the fiancée has already involved you. And as others have already said, by staying silent you are taking the side of the fiancée.
One thing just occurred.
Older DiL has no children. Whether she has chosen it or not, it cant be easy for her to know that younger DiL is in a sense weaponising this..
I still advise keeping out, but giving DiL every reassurance that what's said on social media about what you have said done is not true when she asks/remarks.
If she demands you intervene say its too much to ask for you to start a family feud, you love both your children but cannot "take sides".
But I wouldn't do it in writing, frankly No one is free of the temptation to them use that.
As I said before, I think the older couple will eventually walk away, I don’t know why they haven’t done so already.
You will then have your grandchildren, but you’ll also be left with their hugely dis functional parents, who may possibly split up at some point anyway, and then where will you be?
I think you are going to have to act fast to rescue your relationship with the older couple, and eat lots of humble pie.
Sara1954 for the win
The lies reflect on the liar
If anybody knows your older dil and son, they will know is a bunch of bullshit and unnecessary family drama
Same for the lies for OP from young dil, it is all gossip
When a liar doesn't get the reaction or get the engagement they want, they move on or escalate.
Nothing OP or older couple can do about the reaction of other people.
Unfortunately, OP has already sold her soul to the devil and it will be hard to repair that with the older couple
That's the issue now, not the lies
Stay well away from drama, let your sons take care of their relationships.
And we don't know what the lies are, they might have a source of truth
Hithere
That is true of course, looking from the position of the insecure younger girl, even if they aren’t true, she may think they are.
But she is a troubled girl, she is manipulative and unpleasant, and I don’t think any relationship with her will stand the test of time anyway.
I'm just chucking this in here, not really helping with your dilemma, but its kind of a cautionary tale ... my very touchy and difficult ex DIL took umbrage when I once asked if her parents could look after my then 4yr old GD. I was working full time in a stressful and demanding 50hr+ a week job, but also picking up my beloved GD from nursery on Friday afternoon, and keeping her till Sunday evening. This started when she was 1 yr old and my son walked out on them. I loved her and we went on amazing outings and lovely things together. But I sometimes felt I needed a break. So having broached the subject, DIL told me if I didn't want to have GD every week then I needn't have her at all! I was devastated and so must the 4 Yr old have been, after 3 yrs of spending more time with me than with her mother.
I didnt see or hear from them again until GD was 14, she is 19 now and those missing years made it impossible to restore any kind of relationship with her. I think I've seen her maybe a dozen times in these past 5 yrs, she is a stranger to me now. It was heart rending and I've never really got over it. She was my first GC, and very special to me. I am fortunate that I now have 2 more wonderful GC whom I adore and see regular have a lovely relationship with. But losing the oldest one like that totally broke my heart and must have left her completely bewildered that suddenly I was gone from her life. I see DIL occasionally as she lives close by, we speak but I can never forgive her for how she behaved and how it must have turned GD's world upside down.
Personally, I cannot understand why some people get so obsessive over grandchildren. I love all of mine but, unless they would suffer, I would never allow myself to be held to ransom over them. I also wouldn’t accept someone telling lies about me without saying anything. I totally understand why your older DIL is upset that you’re refusing to say anything just because the other one has children. The message being “it doesn’t matter how lovely you are, you haven’t provided us with DGC”.
Maybe just accept that you’ll lose your older son and wife over this and that you’ll continue to be held to ransom by younger son and DIL over access to dgc. You say they’ve threatened before so. doubtless, they’ll do it again. You say younger DIL is lovely, she sounds a spiteful madam to me.
The threat of being stopped from seeing the GC is working so far so no doubt will be used in the future.
I agree that the d.i.l. sounds like a spiteful madam tickingbird.
What a mess and I feel for you but the thing is you’ve been dragged in to this whether you like it or not and I think you have to just be firm and fair and say ‘we don’t appreciate being dragged into something that is nothing to do with us and if things are being said about us that are untrue then it has to stop’.
Youre not to blame because someone is petty and jealous, also you’re not to be punished for just telling the truth, after all if you keep quiet and hope it will blow over what will the next threat be?
You can’t be held hostage all your life because someone is so screwed up they just want to go to war. Let them, they will soon learn that lesson!
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