AIBU to think the NHS is already dead

Kate1949

Some people are in life or death situations and have no choice but to contact the NHS and are pleased to be able to do so. I'm sure those people don't give a thought as to who is responsible for payment when a loved one is in trouble. I don't know where we'd be without the NHS.

Again, I don't doubt the staff or the care they give. It sounds as if you feel you would be happy and able to pay if "free at the point of need", the thing that makes it the National Health Service the National Health Service, disappeared.

Some people are in life or death situations and have no choice but to contact the NHS and are pleased to be able to do so. I'm sure those people don't give a thought as to who is responsible for payment when a loved one is in trouble. I don't know where we'd be without the NHS.

Urmstongran

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

We had a situation similar to that recently Urmstongran and I emailed our thanks to GP who was surprised but pleased when she emailed back.

Witzend

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

I don't doubt the care but what if you had to pay for it?

DaisyAnneReturns

Oreo

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

Deep thinking and analysis there Oreo.

Am guessing you really don’t like being told YABU but you asked the question so I told you.

Urmstongran

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

The NHS staff certainly do well. I wonder how quick you would be to ring if you knew you were responsible for direct payment for all this?

I don't doubt the staff. It's the government attitude that worries me.

A few years ago I was at a hospital orthopaedics clinic. There was a female dr there from Australia who was here for a couple of years getting additional experience. I asked her about the oz medical world. She told me she was astonished at what we could get done here for free. She said in Australia if you wanted all this treatment done over and above real illness then you would have to pay for it. She said no wonder the nhs is in a mess as too much is expected for too little money from the public. Who knows whether her take on it was fair but personally I think her opinion was pretty accurate.

When my husband was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, he received his radiotherapy at a private hospital under the NHS as the NHS hospital was overloaded. He had excellent care from the NHS throughout.

henetha

I think you are being pessimistic, Daisyann.

I hope that's what it is henetha. Unfortunately, that thought does not stop the right rejecting the idea of the state running anything.

It's interesting to see how many think they will be able to afford either paying for their treatment or getting and affording insurance in old age.

DAR you asked a question in your OP, you’ve had answers, your original query was not about a ‘what if’ in the future.
Perhaps you expected more agreement with your opening stance and seem reluctant to accept the opinion of others, why ask for their views if you’re not listening?

It was very much not dead when I was ill back in March - 3 weeks of excellent care in hospital.

As for contracted-out services, an ex colleague had both his really bad cataracts done at a specialist ‘private’ clinic - for free. The fact that they were so bad was nothing to do with the NHS - he just hadn’t bothered to see an optician let alone a GP, for many years,

I do think it is struggling, through lack of funding etc, however I would certainly not describe it as dead.

I’ve used it quite a lot lately and it has been brilliant. I very much hope it isn’t dead as I await an operation!!

Oreo

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

Deep thinking and analysis there Oreo.

maddyone

DaisyAnneReturns

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

Perhaps. Possibly a small payment for a GP consultation? My daughter is a GP in New Zealand, and although they have state funded health care, everyone has to pay between 50 and 100 dollars to consult a GP. That’s between £25 and £50. Only children under fourteen get free consultations. No one else is exempt, those on pensions or benefits, everyone pays. Just not young children.
I would think that amount too high though.

For some people, even £5 could make them think twice about going to the doctors.

kittylester

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

I don't think anyone is saying it should be the same. It couldn't be with all the advances, could it.

But the thing that was different was "free at the point of need". It meant dustman and Duke got what they need, we had a fit workforce, and no one goes bankrupt because of medical fees. I simply wonder how many are prepared to let that go?

I rang the GP surgery this morning at 10am about a concern. Lovely receptionist said doctor will ring back. GP rang 2pm. Prescribed 2 items, on line to our pharmacy down below us and emailed an urgent request to the District Nursing team. I collected the prescription at 3:30pm. The DN rang at 4:30pm. A nurse will be along in a couple of hours to administer the necessary.

We are so relieved and grateful. We worried a situation may get worse over the weekend and what we are dealing with at present is stressful enough.

Himself encouraged me to ring the surgery back to say a big thank you to all concerned.

When the NHS does well, it does efficiently and excellently.

I for one don’t think the NHS is on its last legs. Far from it.

DaisyAnneReturns

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

Perhaps. Possibly a small payment for a GP consultation? My daughter is a GP in New Zealand, and although they have state funded health care, everyone has to pay between 50 and 100 dollars to consult a GP. That’s between £25 and £50. Only children under fourteen get free consultations. No one else is exempt, those on pensions or benefits, everyone pays. Just not young children.
I would think that amount too high though.

kittylester

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

That’s how I feel.

At the time of its conception medical procedures and drugs available today would be in the realms of science fiction.

All things evolve, maybe it’s time to rethink the NHS model

It needs to be removed from the Government of the day and run by a cross party board of MP’s and experts.

I think you are being pessimistic, Daisyann.

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

Wyllow3

No, its not, thank goodness, but it's struggling and needs every bit of our support via whoever will listen politically.

Yes I think Wyllow is right. But it certainly is struggling. I’m really quite concerned about it. I feel sorry for the poor NHS staff who are being treated so badly whilst trying to do their best. I support their strikes.

Firstly, limited help is available for those on the NHS Low Income Scheme. It offers a limited range of dentistry and a limited payment for glasses. As they close audiology departments, I imagine this will include limited help for hearing aids. Indeed, some NHS Health regions already have contracts with local opticians and audiologists.

So that's the poorest amongst us. That is not my worry at the moment. Although, as more of the NHS is privatised more will have to use this limited service.

Fast-forward to the soon-to-appear day when you go to your privately run, town-centre, diagnostic business for your scans, checks and tests. It sounds like a good idea. It is a good idea. But this government constantly underfunds everything the state pays for.

They underfund education, social care, dentistry, glasses, childcare, nurses' salaries, doctors' salaries, teachers' salaries, local government and all the services they need to provide. They underfund everything we have all voted to be provided by the state.

It is not unreasonable for this government to do this. If you voted for them, that's what you voted for. If you continued to vote for them, as they moved further to the right, you voted for people who believe only defence should be paid from taxes.

So, what could this mean? An annual payment system as many dentists now use to provide a basic service? Or more direct-employment and top-ups for underfunded allowances, as happens with the care system.

Who knows. But the healthcare egalitarianism that came out of the second world war is dying and, where the NHS is concerned, is already in its death throws. This change may be the right thing to do, or it may not, but I don't remember being asked, or given the choice.

I'm more than happy to pay towards my treatment as long as it is free for those who can't afford to pay, what I don't want is a two tier system with different standards. I don't think the NHS is sustainable in it's current form but I doubt any political party is brave enough to either say that or do anything about it. It needs a cross party approach but won't get it.