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AIBU

AIBU to think the NHS is already dead

(117 Posts)
DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 10:40:14

The difference between the NHS and all other systems was the promise of "free at the point of need". This meant everybody got the same - they got what they needed at the time that they needed it.

Now we have private dentistry, private optical care, private hearing care, and soon private scanning clinics, private GPs, etc.

I don't doubt you may be able to use these places, as an "NHS" patient if you're poor, or that there will be special "NHS" clinics available. But you will be limited as you already are in the currently privatised areas, by the standard amount that the NHS/goverment will pay and which treatments they will cover.

To me means the death of the NHS.

henetha Fri 04-Aug-23 10:46:42

I had my first knee replacement in 2005, in a private hospital. But it cost me nothing. The NHS have been doing this for a long time now. I had a cataract op done earlier this year, again in a private facility, but cost me nothing.
How much does it matter, providing it is still free to the patients? I have mixed feeling about this, and would personally have preferred my ops in NHS hospitals.
But, the treatment was good, and free, so I have no real reason to grumble.
I don't think it necessarily means the death of the NHS.

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 10:51:12

The difference between the NHS and all other systems was the promise of "free at the point of need".

Is this 'difference' actually true any more? Don't most European countries (and others) have systems that are reall not so very different when it comes down to it?

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 10:51:46

As for "already dead". Nah. Nowhere near.

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 10:54:10

Full of problems, yes, but not dead. My GP surgery bar-coded a prescription request to my pharmacist this morning so that it could be done immediately (cos they'd messed up and not sent it a few days ago). All done with goos humour and patience.

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 10:54:33

*good

Wyllow3 Fri 04-Aug-23 10:54:37

No, its not, thank goodness, but it's struggling and needs every bit of our support via whoever will listen politically.

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 10:59:21

They have been doing it for a long time henetha and using private facilities can work.

This is not what I was highlighting. That is not the problem.

An increasing number of services are limited by the amount the NHS/government is prepared to pay, or simply limited and not available under the NHS.

For instance and as an example, in the future, they could limit it to one knee, and you may be expected to pay for the other one. We're not at that point yet but we are rapidly moving in that direction. Just look at the services that have been privatised.

Shut your eyes and "free at the point of need" will be gone and those unable yo pay will be rationed, as they already are in some areas.

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 11:00:45

For instance and as an example, in the future, they could limit it to one knee, and you may be expected to pay for the other one. We're not at that point yet but we are rapidly moving in that direction. Just look at the services that have been privatised.

Where is this information from, please, DAR?

Baggs Fri 04-Aug-23 11:01:28

Also, what services have been privatised exactly?

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 11:06:25

Baggs

*For instance and as an example, in the future, they could limit it to one knee, and you may be expected to pay for the other one. We're not at that point yet but we are rapidly moving in that direction. Just look at the services that have been privatised.*

Where is this information from, please, DAR?

* Bags* - really? Perhaps re-read it.

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 11:21:55

Baggs

Also, what services have been privatised exactly?

Are you just trying to be annoying? I listed some of them. The government has just announced more. I imagine you could find them just as easily as I can.

The difference is between a "need" decided by a clinician, being free, whatever it is. What we are moving towards are needs being met on an income related basis. Those needs are then limited by the goverment and generally underfunded so that few private companies are prepared to provide them at all or only with a financial top-up.

Now you may be quite happy moving to this. I may feel I will not be affected but many will be.

Jaxjacky Fri 04-Aug-23 12:09:45

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

BlueBelle Fri 04-Aug-23 12:16:27

No it’s not dead it’s still bloody wonderful but they do need some changes not everything should be on the NHS it should deal with illness not everything that anyone wants from tummy tucks to sex changes and I know I m about to get my head bitten off in many places
It should use all its resources to deal with ILLNESS and making people well that’s what’s it’s set up for
I don’t doubt at all that the other things should be dealt with at our own expenses or even at partial costs
Yes totally unreasonable daisyann

Katie59 Fri 04-Aug-23 12:19:20

There has got to be some kind of contribution payment for those that can afford it - means testing by any other name, too much is available to too many that can pay.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 04-Aug-23 12:28:54

No it’s not dead, it’s overstretched but still brilliant when you need it.

LadyGracie Fri 04-Aug-23 12:38:37

The NHS in Wales isn’t dead but it’s definitely struggling to survive.

foxie48 Fri 04-Aug-23 12:47:29

I'm more than happy to pay towards my treatment as long as it is free for those who can't afford to pay, what I don't want is a two tier system with different standards. I don't think the NHS is sustainable in it's current form but I doubt any political party is brave enough to either say that or do anything about it. It needs a cross party approach but won't get it.

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 14:52:54

Firstly, limited help is available for those on the NHS Low Income Scheme. It offers a limited range of dentistry and a limited payment for glasses. As they close audiology departments, I imagine this will include limited help for hearing aids. Indeed, some NHS Health regions already have contracts with local opticians and audiologists.

So that's the poorest amongst us. That is not my worry at the moment. Although, as more of the NHS is privatised more will have to use this limited service.

Fast-forward to the soon-to-appear day when you go to your privately run, town-centre, diagnostic business for your scans, checks and tests. It sounds like a good idea. It is a good idea. But this government constantly underfunds everything the state pays for.

They underfund education, social care, dentistry, glasses, childcare, nurses' salaries, doctors' salaries, teachers' salaries, local government and all the services they need to provide. They underfund everything we have all voted to be provided by the state.

It is not unreasonable for this government to do this. If you voted for them, that's what you voted for. If you continued to vote for them, as they moved further to the right, you voted for people who believe only defence should be paid from taxes.

So, what could this mean? An annual payment system as many dentists now use to provide a basic service? Or more direct-employment and top-ups for underfunded allowances, as happens with the care system.

Who knows. But the healthcare egalitarianism that came out of the second world war is dying and, where the NHS is concerned, is already in its death throws. This change may be the right thing to do, or it may not, but I don't remember being asked, or given the choice.

maddyone Fri 04-Aug-23 15:03:30

Wyllow3

No, its not, thank goodness, but it's struggling and needs every bit of our support via whoever will listen politically.

Yes I think Wyllow is right. But it certainly is struggling. I’m really quite concerned about it. I feel sorry for the poor NHS staff who are being treated so badly whilst trying to do their best. I support their strikes.

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 04-Aug-23 16:21:20

Would you be happy to loose "free at the point of use", or does something else define the NHS for you?

kittylester Fri 04-Aug-23 16:33:15

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

Oreo Fri 04-Aug-23 16:43:31

Jaxjacky

I agrée there is a significant lack of NHS Dentists. Free eye tests stopped for all in 1989, but are still free now for a significant number of people. As far as I know, from friends, hearing tests and aids are still free.
From my experience, to date, the vast majority of care is free. Different from when we lived in France a few years ago where we paid for GP visits, prescriptions and an ambulance.
Perhaps it’s time the UK moved to another model, free for those who can’t afford it, fraught with its own issues.
So, today 4th August 2023 I think you ABU.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes OP YABU
The NHS is not dead or near dead at all.

henetha Fri 04-Aug-23 16:51:43

I think you are being pessimistic, Daisyann.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 04-Aug-23 17:01:20

kittylester

The NHS was a very different thing when it began. Things change! It shouldn't be a sacred cow that is still expected to stay the same.

The NHS is, though, alive and well in my world.

That’s how I feel.

At the time of its conception medical procedures and drugs available today would be in the realms of science fiction.

All things evolve, maybe it’s time to rethink the NHS model

It needs to be removed from the Government of the day and run by a cross party board of MP’s and experts.