Trans Teacher

Oh being called disgusting doesnt worry me. Crack on with that kind of thing.
I am not stopping anyone from doing anything. I am trying to think and talk. Its increasingly difficult of course.

The hypothetical reasons for stopping a teacher wearing a skirt have indeed become ridiculous.
It seems that he might be turned on by it
He might be making a statement
He might be influencing children
Actually he would just be wearing a skirt and all the rest is pure fantasy dreamt up to justify the unjustifiable.
The concept that dress restrictions can be placed on people based on their sex.
It's simple to show how illogical and unreasonable this is. Simply ask would you permit such restrictions on dress for everyone? And if you can't say "yes" you are being discriminatory.
It is absolutely nothing to do with safeguarding children and claiming it would be is fairly disgusting.

Because the are literally hundreds of accounts by the men themselves describing it.

Oh no…… we’re not back to women in trousers again are we?Time for bed 🥱

We don't know he isn't real

Men also wear makeup now and carry bags because don't well all know they are seriously useful

Why can't a skirt be a skirt until we are sure otherwise

I couldnt care what you expect. People on here are trying to think.

I am not discussing him. Hes not real. I am discussing the safeguarding issue that for some men dressing in clothes traditionally worn by woman is a turn on. I am discussing the safeguarding issues involving this. I am offering no solutions I am exploring the issues in my head whilst trying to ignore people shouting.

Once women put their jobs on the line to wear trousers. They stood and heard all the criticism, the name calling, the people who thought they were "asking for it" or called them all sorts of names I won't repeat

Now... well I expected better from women...

Because you are all discussing him, and I truly hope he never finds out...

And I hope the people around him are far more accepting of change

VS this is getting beyond ridiculous.

Why would someone ask him (and we don't even know that he exists) if he has a fetish? His manager would be way out of line doing that, and posters on here couldn't if they wanted to.

Nobody is 'demanding' anything. We are discussing a probably hypothetical case and the issues that surround it.

How is this thread spreading rumours? We don't know the school, the teacher or even if the story is true. It is a discussion.

There are all sorts of 'possibles' and we have no way of knowing which are more or less likely. You may think that the benefit of the doubt is the best way forward, but where the welfare and safeguarding of children is concerned I would rather be a lot more cautious.

Do you honestly think that anyone on this thread thinks being trans is contagious? Or that you need to wear a skirt to be trans?

Well since VS mentioned both those things, perhaps she does. I can’t find any other evidence of people mentioning it.

Are you going to shoplift in tescos?
No one on this thread has suggested spreading rumours.
Benefit of the doubt is quite a complex idea and often turns back to bite those who give it out.

Sarcasm or not, it is the sort of nonsense that we hear all the time, and it wasn't presented as such.

Nobody is throwing Mr Teacher under a bus - we are simply discussing whether he (or any other male teacher) should wear a skirt in a primary school. If drag queens are reading them stories, and men with mastectomy scars are illustrated in library books the context is such that it seems to me potentially harmful.

Do you honestly think that anyone on this thread thinks being trans is contagious? Or that you need to wear a skirt to be trans?

How are you going to ascertain if it is a sexual fetish?

Are you going to go an ask him that? "Excuse me sir, does that skirt turn you on?"

Are you going to demand that school implement clothing policies based on gender norms?

Are you going to spread rumours (like this thread is doing) directly around the school area? " have you seen that Mr Whoever in a skirt? He must be dodgy right?" In a career and reputation ruining way that could even put him at risk of physical harm

Or could we possibly give him the benefit of the doubt . Perhaps he is making a statement against gender norms or maybe, he just liked the skirt and walked out of the house feeling good about himself

VioletSky

I guess I am doing my part then because I never wear trousers

I will have a word with all the other teachers, tell them they are endangering our youth

What shall I do about the trans parents? Have them banned from school property?

We have a few sets of gay parents too, shall I tell them walking hnd in hand is flaunting their sexuality and they should pretend they are friends?

Absolutely not

Children give no thought to any of it at all unless they parrot what they hear at home... things like "Boys can't marry boys" and "girls can't play football" and "boys can't wear pink".

Which are the only times teachers generally step in and say, actually that's not true... because it isn't.

I think I'll give it one more try.

It's not about gay couples walking hand in hand. Nor is it about parents who might be transgender.

It's about those in positions of power and influence - eg, teachers, possibly pushing their agenda on to a class of 8-9 year olds - if that is indeed what this skirt-wearing male teacher is doing. An awful lot of people think teachers should be neutral as far as it is possible to be so. About lots of matters, not just transgender issues.

I understand you don't accept this - but there are those of us who are worried that the normal problems that adolescents face - the mood swings due to hormonal changes, their need to express themselves and gain independence, etc, etc, as they start to step into the adult world - are being exploited by some of those in positions of power and authority who have an agenda to fulfil. This exploitation can lead to medical interventions which we think might be damaging to their physical and mental wellbeing.

Children give no thought to any of it at all unless they parrot what they hear at home... things like "Boys can't marry boys" and "girls can't play football" and "boys can't wear pink".

By the same token VS - they might well give no thought to being 'in the wrong body' or that they are suffering a gender-identity crisis unless they are parroting what they hear from those with an agenda, in the school environment.

You don't have to agree with the point we are making - just use your powers of comprehension to see the point, which clearly you don't, as your first four sentences demonstrate.

Again - it's not about you or any of the other teachers wearing or not wearing trousers, nor is it about parents who might be gay, bi, trans, fluid, or any combinations of these identities - it's about people in positions of power following and pushing a personal programme.

VS
There is nothing sexual about a skirt?

In this context no, but that statement isn’t necessarily always true.

I’m at a loss to see why you are ranting about trans parents? How did you manage to drag them into a thread about a man in a skirt?

Being trans is not contagious, it is not wrong and you don't have to even wear a skirt to be a trans woman anyway

I’ve read through the thread and I can’t find anyone who has said being trans is wrong or contagious.
Why would you think they might be, or is this another vs that you are the only one who doesn’t think that?

Schools are working hard for children and it's little wonder so many staff burn out with all the pressure put on them by people who don't realise just how incredibly hard supporting a diverse class of needs is

And it’s even harder if you’re teaching and planning for a class of diverse needs as I do all the time.

But once again you appear to be making it all about you as the only one who knows or cares.

I am not throwing anyone anywhere. I am discussing the issue that for some men wearing skirts etc is a sexual fetish and how we ensure children arent involved in that. Pretending it doesnt happen has never been a particularly great strategy so thats not a game I wan to play. I am not really interested in individual cases but rather the issues that are raised.

As for the things children say repeated from home, I have heard all 3 in the last 6 months, especially "girls can't play football" while they came second in a championship...

It was sarcasm 😔

It's just a skirt

There is nothing sexual about a skirt

It is not overt or covert approval of trans people (not that approving of trans people is a crime)

And trans people are welcome in many career paths anyway (including teaching) because of anti discrimination rules

Being trans is not contagious, it is not wrong and you don't have to even wear a skirt to be a trans woman anyway

All that matters is that teachers are supporting children to reach their full potential in their education and that they are supporting children's social, emotional and physical development while (and this bit is important) ensuring children themselves face no discrimination in schools

Because some trans people ARE under the age of 18 and facing enough problems in their own families, in their peer groups and in obtaining any kind of support while suffering gender dysphoria... and some of them are lost to self harm and suicide every year, some probably without ever finding the courage to tell the adults they should be able to trust why they aren't coping

Schools are working hard for children and it's little wonder so many staff burn out with all the pressure put on them by people who don't realise just how incredibly hard supporting a diverse class of needs is

And people want to throw Mr Whoever under a bus because of an item of clothing

Callistemon21

😂😂😂

I know. Beyond parody, isn't it?

No, VS. Of course you shouldn't ban trans parents. How (and why) would you do that? How many are there in the school where you work anyway? Other children's parents are not role models for children, but a good teacher is, so there is no equivalence whatsoever.

I very much doubt that 'the other teachers' (by which I assume you mean women in trousers?) are endangering youth either, unless there is something going on that you haven't mentioned. As has been said to the point of utter tedium, women in trousers is not subversive. Not even a tiny bit. The odds on the children not having mothers who wear trousers are minute.

Can you explain what gay parents have to do with any of this whatsoever? Hand in hand or closeted, they are like the flowers that bloom in the spring - they have nothing to do with the case.

How often do children say that boys can't marry boys? Gay marriage is something that is on every soap, and is very mainstream these days - I'd be surprised if children in anything but the most orthodox religious school would think it was impossible. Ditto girls' football - the Lionesses anyone? The wearing pink thing was just for babies when it was the convention, which is very much dying out as far as I can see. Mr Dog is as blokey as they come, and even he has pink shirts, so it doesn't apply to adults. None of any of that has to do with trans issues either.

How often do we have to say it - it is not the skirt, it is the context. Disagree by all means, but at least argue a case that is not entirely unrelated to the issue. I really didn't think that people still thought that gay parents, women in trousers, girls' football or males in pink were 'trans issues' nowadays - I thought we'd moved on from all of that.

Dickens

Glorianny

Namsnanny

Galaxy

It's actually quite a complex issue with regard to equality. I know there has been some correlation on this thread between women wearing trousers etc and men wearing skirts.. But there is an elephant in the room that complicates things. I like to think that I have been very clear during these discussions that I view clothes make up etc as nothing to do with someones sex they are stereotypes enforced by society. So Adam Ant, and all the gender non conforming men from years ago were men challenging gender norms and it was great. I dont care what people wear. But it has become very clear that some men are sexually aroused by wearing womens clothes. What the hell do we do about this.

Thank you, your post is far more eloquent than mine, and yes what do we do about it?

Imv much depends on where people think this is coming from.

It takes a long time for people to catch up to the authors of this change in society.

If we are going to ban anything which can sexually arouse a man we will have a real problem. I remember a prostitute whose customer just wanted her to kneel on the floor naked and roll oranges at him.
And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

But Galaxy did say some men - and some of those men have explained their fetish.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not automatically assuming this male teacher was indulging his fetish in the classroom. I'm more inclined to the view that he was making a point.

And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

Which adds a new dimension to working-from-home.

Well fetish or otherwise, the point he made was he wore a skirt because he wanted to.

My feelings are children are being ignored or worse used, in a political experiment.

Dickens

Glorianny

Namsnanny

Galaxy

It's actually quite a complex issue with regard to equality. I know there has been some correlation on this thread between women wearing trousers etc and men wearing skirts.. But there is an elephant in the room that complicates things. I like to think that I have been very clear during these discussions that I view clothes make up etc as nothing to do with someones sex they are stereotypes enforced by society. So Adam Ant, and all the gender non conforming men from years ago were men challenging gender norms and it was great. I dont care what people wear. But it has become very clear that some men are sexually aroused by wearing womens clothes. What the hell do we do about this.

Thank you, your post is far more eloquent than mine, and yes what do we do about it?

Imv much depends on where people think this is coming from.

It takes a long time for people to catch up to the authors of this change in society.

If we are going to ban anything which can sexually arouse a man we will have a real problem. I remember a prostitute whose customer just wanted her to kneel on the floor naked and roll oranges at him.
And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

But Galaxy did say some men - and some of those men have explained their fetish.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not automatically assuming this male teacher was indulging his fetish in the classroom. I'm more inclined to the view that he was making a point.

And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

Which adds a new dimension to working-from-home.

I'm all for banning ovens.

Not oranges.

Glorianny

Namsnanny

Galaxy

It's actually quite a complex issue with regard to equality. I know there has been some correlation on this thread between women wearing trousers etc and men wearing skirts.. But there is an elephant in the room that complicates things. I like to think that I have been very clear during these discussions that I view clothes make up etc as nothing to do with someones sex they are stereotypes enforced by society. So Adam Ant, and all the gender non conforming men from years ago were men challenging gender norms and it was great. I dont care what people wear. But it has become very clear that some men are sexually aroused by wearing womens clothes. What the hell do we do about this.

Thank you, your post is far more eloquent than mine, and yes what do we do about it?

Imv much depends on where people think this is coming from.

It takes a long time for people to catch up to the authors of this change in society.

If we are going to ban anything which can sexually arouse a man we will have a real problem. I remember a prostitute whose customer just wanted her to kneel on the floor naked and roll oranges at him.
And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

But Galaxy did say some men - and some of those men have explained their fetish.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not automatically assuming this male teacher was indulging his fetish in the classroom. I'm more inclined to the view that he was making a point.

And didn't Cynthia Payne make a man clean her oven?

Which adds a new dimension to working-from-home.

Doesn't seem so

Walking hand in hand as two men or two women is not the same as asexual fetish. I am guessing we all understand that.