AIBU to think it’s shocking Southwark Council refused a lesbian space because it's female-only?

If it's a case of 'live and let live' then why can't lesbians have a female on;y community space.

Why on earth would a biological male want to be there?

This is being discussed on a similar thread under News and Politics I think

Smileless2012

If it's a case of 'live and let live' then why can't lesbians have a female on;y community space.

Why on earth would a biological male want to be there?

Exactly this. If we’re supposed to live and let live then it should apply both ways. Men have their spaces, trans groups have theirs why should it suddenly be a problem when women ask for one?

It baffles me that the council would rather spend public money fighting this in court than just let a group of women rent a disused space

Jaxjacky

This is being discussed on a similar thread under News and Politics I think

Thank you

I've no doubt the council are being exceptionally sexist and woman-hating.

It's because they're women who don't want to be surrounded by creepy blokes trying to get into the women's knickers and trying to turn them into subservient little housewives/mothers with no brains or lives of their own.

Good on these lovely lesbian ladies, I hope they sue the stuffing out of the council!

Sadly if they do 'Sue the stuffing' out of the council, it is not the obtuse councillors who will foot the bill.

Are there ‘Gay men only’ & ‘Trans only’ spaces funded by the council?
If so, then I can’t understand why they wouldn’t allow a lesbian only space?
But I imagine these various groups can become a bit hard to control - I mean, a lesbian only space? How to you know the woman is a lesbian? What if she’s bi-sexual? would she be allowed in?
What if she’s bi-curious? The list is endless.
The only thing I agree on is that there should be ‘female’ only spaces / activities - such as swimming.

Why not a women only space

Kandinsky

Are there ‘Gay men only’ & ‘Trans only’ spaces funded by the council?
If so, then I can’t understand why they wouldn’t allow a lesbian only space?
But I imagine these various groups can become a bit hard to control - I mean, a lesbian only space? How to you know the woman is a lesbian? What if she’s bi-sexual? would she be allowed in?
What if she’s bi-curious? The list is endless.
The only thing I agree on is that there should be ‘female’ only spaces / activities - such as swimming.

The question is why would a straight woman want to join a lesbian group? I really don't think there would be a 'problem' with that, and even if a straight woman did join, she would not pose a threat to the other women there.

It's easy to understand why straight men might want to join (and most transwomen are heterosexual males, don't forget), particularly when doing so removes the rights of women to meet without a male presence.

Doodledog Well, it’s ( I guess? ) a form of discrimination is it not?

Would the council fund a group purely for heterosexual women?

You know, to me, a woman’s a woman. I couldn’t care less whether she’s gay, straight or bi or whatever.

Kandinsky

You know, to me, a woman’s a woman. I couldn’t care less whether she’s gay, straight or bi or whatever.

I agree. Sexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with this.

But to me, a man is a man, too. I couldn't care less whether he claims to 'live as' a woman (whatever that means). He can't possibly be a lesbian, so I would question why he wants to join a lesbian group, wouldn't you?

Yes I would.
Which brings me back to the question I asked earlier - is the council funding men only & trans only spaces? Because if it is, and a trans person or man rocked up at the lesbians place, they could politely redirect them.

Why should they be directed? Why would they turn up at a female only community place when they're not female?

May we go back to the stated grounds on which the request was not granted? Just for clarification. TIA

Maremia

May we go back to the stated grounds on which the request was not granted? Just for clarification. TIA

We may. According to the OP it was 'because it would be single sex'. No problem

A group of lesbians requesting a single sex place for women; shocking isn't it I mean how dare they.

If they don't support single sex groups for men as well I can't see it is discrimination as they are treating both sexes the same.

Smileless2012

A group of lesbians requesting a single sex place for women; shocking isn't it I mean how dare they.

Nothing wrong with requesting it although I can't see why being lesbians is relevant. If the council policy is they don't support single sex groups no problem, if the policy is they don't support women's groups that is a problem if they do support mens groups.

From what i can see they run fathers groups, they run mens health groups, how they define men is anyone's guess of course.

I was involved with a lesbian/bi women's group around fifteen years ago before trans rights were such a political minefield. The council allowed us to use a building but we paid a small rent. Funding was obtained from charities and local businesses to help with running costs. The rules on trans women were that they must be fully transitioned (i.e had surgery) and must identify as lesbian. I don't recall anyone having an issue with this.

The problems started when people were allowed to "self-identify". Now any biological male who has not taken hormones or had surgery can "identify" as female.

Such people have every right to set up support groups or social groups - but they do not belong in lesbian spaces.

Yes, there are men's groups and trans groups so I can't see how a council can refuse a space on the basis of not allowing single sex groups. If this was the reason given I would suggest that the women who are affected should turn up en masse at the local men's groups !

A woman is not simply a man who has had surgery, we are an actual class of human beings.

Galaxy

A woman is not simply a man who has had surgery, we are an actual class of human beings.

Lesbians aren't trans women.

I used to a mother and baby group and two regular members were men. Unusual over 40 years ago for the father to be the stay at home parent but the point is although the group was called mother's and babies we let dad's attend. I don't know if other groups in the area are open to both sexes but if they are single sex then it is discrimination, if not it isn't.

I know lesbians aren't transwomen. Transwomen are men, lesbians are women.
Under the supreme Court ruling if they are describing them as mens groups then that should refer to biological sex.
One of the groups is described as a male health group, why would that be a mixed sex group if it is titled a group for males. I understand the 'mother and toddler' thing as years ago it was mostly mothers who looked after children, in a sense those groups were playgroups with a stereotypical name.