The Survey - perhaps Cari could ...

I agree with you Aka

Not all older people, and especially very elderly people, have access to the internet, so as well as being self-selective within Gransnet, we don't know how many people were unable to participate. It certainly can't be said to be a fair representation of the views of older people in general.

and dangerous

That's the point, you can't. The whole exercise was, and always would be, unrepresentative, and therefore pointless.

How do you self-select as representative, Pentillie?

Perhaps we can hear from members what their 'general thoughts' are on this ill-conceived and badly organised survey. Perhaps a representative group of about a half-dozen of you would care to comment on behalf of the rest of the membership.........that should be enough to give a fair picture.

After listening to the way these 'statistics' are being pounced upon and manipulated by the media, I feel betrayed.

I would be interested to know the incomes of those who were in favour of means testing.

Sounds like a completely shambolic exercise. Await with interest the question posed by Riverwalk- for whom was this survey undertaken?

I don't remember it very well, but I don't think the emphasis in the survey was on the words "means test" (I can't actually remember them being used at all, but that may be just me). I do remember the bit about should WFA be kept for people with an income over £55,000 pa though. I wonder if people answered no to that question and it got translated as "means tested". I think I thought of it as something that might be done through the tax system.

If you just bang out a questionnaire and 1000 answer it, you will not know how representative they are of the whole population (in context).

BUT, if you carefully select as few as 200 people, who are representative of the population (by age, gender race etc.etc, depending on the survey) then you would expect to get a reasonably accurate result.

So what you have here is a population who like to answer surveys / are interested in the topic, but are not necessarily representative of the GN population. Not, then, carefully thought out?

Got the media headline wrong the DT had it as 'Grandparents support rationing winter fuel payments- and bus passes.'

A random sample of 1,000 from a very large population will provide a reasonably accurate picture of the views of the population much larger than every member of Gransnet. I once knew all the maths behind this and could prove it.

BUT, and it is a big BUT, the sample must be a random sample, not a self selected sample as here - and I think we also need to ask how far Gransnetters as a whole represent the elderly population in this country.

The problem is Gransnet does the survey and issues the results with all the provisos; a self selected population from the self selected population, which is Gransnet, but once the survey gets into the media it becomes:
'A survey shows 24 % of pensioners think that.........'

It is like all these surveys the media enjoy reporting that say that the contents of the average woman's handbag is worth £10,000, then you look at the survey background and find it was carried out by Versace and all the women in the sample were all private couture customers.

Indeed, and I suspect, for a variety of reasons that those who use this site are not typical of the entire population of grandparents; and that the results are a very unreliable way of gauging pensioner or grandparently opinion.

Cari on whose behalf was the survey carried out?

Fact remains AKA, that only about 200 pensioners out of a pensioner population of several million (no doubt someone can tell us the exact figure)have been quoted as in favour of means testing, and the Press have presented the survey as though it is fairly representative of pensioners as a whole. This may be the case, and I'm not blaming Gransnet for this situation, but it just goes to confirm what LizG says - most surveys are useless, and can be used by anybody,usually politicians, to prove any point they want to make.
I mean, for heavens sake, 180 people!

I've no idea Aka.

I agree with you River about the representation of the figures. But do you think the percentage would be different if the majority of GNetters has taken part?

Aka there's neither a solution or a problem in taking part, or not, in a survey

My issue with the survey is with the presentation of the figures.

But everyone had the chance to take part in the survey. So if you couldn't be bothered then ..... If you're not part of the solution then you're part if the problem.
Yeh, know that sounds a bit harsh but only saying

From the infographic, it only shows those already in receipt of the winter fuel allowance, not pension.

Probably another badly-designed questionnaire in the first place - certainly badly-presented by GN.

Very good discussion going on.

Yes, and how many of those are pensioners, who know how easy ,or difficult, it is to manage on a pension and any other benefits?