Hungry Britain

Sorry. Off-subject. I'll shush.

Teachers childminding ? Well yes, to an extent. If ever school was closed for a day for any reason, the cry from parents was almost always "Now I've got to find/sort out childminding"; rarely was it "Oh dear that's a valuable day of education lost."

No, I'm sure it hasn't. Do carry on.

I note that you have now moved on to child minding, in or out of schools. Has Hungry Britain run its course?

No. Not just for the rich. But it's good if people think ahead, and plan if possible. School should n't be looked upon as a place for "minding" children.

Oh no jingle what are you saying? Children are not just for the rich you know and peoples circumstances can change in a breath!

.......and that is absolutely NOT how I read Aka's post at all.

Agree jingl all kids are better educated at home!

Maybe people should n't have kids if they can't afford for one of them to stay at home and look after them. You should n't be relying on schools to mind your children for you.

(Aka 8.36)

"A childminding gap" !!!!!!

Is that what school is for? Childminding? And is that what my excellently educated teacher daughter is - a childminder?!!! [ shock]

I totally agree Jane- breakfast clubs are very important and valuable- but I would hate them to become the norm for all. We both worked, and I had a long commute- but we always got up a bit earlier so that we could have breakfast together, or at least one of us with the kids. And in the evening, we had our meal sitting at the table, together as a family- about 90% of the time (not always possible due to on-call, home visits and parents' evenings, meetings, etc). That family time together was just invaluable for us all - and our adult girls still talk about how important it was.

I'm back (briefly) to add my to Jendurham I was chief carer to my husband while he had terminal cancer. For the last few weeks we had carers coming in four times a day for half-an-hour to help, but most of the responsibility was mine. While he was able to get about we would walk daily, like my neighbour who had the stroke, and outwardly he still looked like a healthy 70-year-old, but he could not have walked alone.

For Cactus neighbour to qualify for a carer's allowance (which is £59.75 a week, and is hardly mega-money at 59 pence an hour) she would have to fulfil these conditions -

"Spend at least 35 hours a week caring for a disabled person. It doesn't matter whether or not you live with them.

Care for someone who receives the higher or middle rate care component of Disability Living Allowance, either rate of Personal Independence Payment daily living component, or any rate of Attendance Allowance.

Not earn more than £100 a week (after deductions)

Not be in full-time education."

Plus she would have had to fill in a very long and detailed form about exactly what she had to do to look after him, covering all aspects of his care, and that would be checked up on.

I agree Aka my son and DiL both work in industry and both have to be in work for 8am when they are on day shift. The working population is so much more than 9-5 and when parents are quite rightly encouraged to work and not scrounge from the state there is often no help allowing them to do so. Unless they are on their two days with me, my granchildren virtually never get to eat breakfast "around the table". Sadly for a lot of children breakfast is more often than not a rushed affair far too early in the morning.

My DS and DiL have exactly the kind of gap, morning and afternoon, that Aka describes and the Breakfast Club and after school activities help to fill that gap. They also employ a carer part-time. It means the DGS get an opportunity to do creative activities and sports after school. They could and do, also do that stuff at home but they like doing them in organised groups. As far as depression is concerned, when I worked in HR I saw so many cases of hardworking and committed professional people who developed depression. Some times they could come in and work normally and some times they couldn't. This would mean with most employers that they end up losing their jobs. Then it is very hard to get another because your employment history has become questionable (why did you leave your last job? Why is there this gap in your history?). There are a lot of 'hidden' conditions that mean you can carry on fairly normally sometimes but are a very bad risk for an employer.

That was to Jane not Jen

That's not compulsion Jen and you have to move with the times. Schools normally don't open their doors until almost nine o'clock, and most parents don't have flexible working hours. Parents who are teachers generally have to be in work for 8.30 so there is a childminding gap here, and that's not allowing for travelling time. Most other parents have to be in work for 9.00 and that means at their desk, till, etc.. again you need to factor in travel and parking.

Schools who provide a Breakfast Club can help to alleviate this issue. I've seen at least 50 Breakfast Clubs in action. Often they are run by parents, or TAs and provide space for play, talk, reading etc. as well as food.

Yes, in a world where mum/dad stayed at home and had time for a family breakfast before escorting her/his children to school, it is of course ideal. But in the real world that's not going to happen.

My full admiration to you jen your husband will have known how much you loved him what a special relationship you must have had together.

What a polarised discussion this has become, despite the fact no posters seem to be disputing the fact that a small number of people exploit or fiddle the benefit system.

Cactus - your posts express a negative and critical view of people. You don't say what work you do that takes you into so many homes where you feel you are exposed to people exploiting the benefit system. I can still recall the small number of adults I came across who were determined to exact every penny they could from the benefit system. My conclusion is those people were exploiters, they'd exploit personal relationships in the same way they'd exploit any circumstance they found themselves in. Luckily, they were such a small minority that my faith in my fellow humans may have been battered occasionally, but remains alive and well.

I found the judgemental tone of some posts unpleasant. There are a number of threads on gransnet about the impact of depression or other mental health problems. I imagine that some gransnet followers have themselves had periods off work as a result of depression, stress or other 'invisible' illnesses. Some of us may even live on the dreaded "estates".

For those who are happy to criticise the "undeserving" poor, whilst supporting those who are 'deserving', maybe a read of Angela's Ashes would challenge the stereotypes, but probably not.

On reading your posts, Durhamjen, I take my hat off to you.What a super person you must be, to have had to deal with caring so much for the husband you loved.

Actually eloethan that is what happens in Norway, overtime hours have an annual limit, so rather than someone working 60 hours a week, that is 1.5 peoples job. Seems to work for them.

We're in a ridiculous situation where some people are working so many hours that they see little of their children, whereas other people are unable to get a job. I think it is time for working hours to be reduced so that more people are employed and families have a better work/life balance.

aka
rosesarered said
"Children should always come first, and certainly be fed at school as much as possible. Breakfast club is a very good idea."

I just take the opposite view. I think children should eat with their families as much as possible. I think it's sad that because so many parents often have to work unsocial hours, eating together as a family is becoming an anachronism.
There is an expectation that businesses and services should be available 24/7 but someone has to work in them, and this is often detrimental to family life, IMHO.

I'm sure there are many carers who spend every day in an endless round of practical and personal tasks which they willingly undertake for their loved ones but which exhaust, isolate and demoralise them. In my opinion, to imply that a significant number are sitting around watching TV is unjust. I also think that, for most people, the idea of having to rely solely on rubbishy TV programmes for their interest and entertainment would not be an attractive one. I can't think of anyone I know who would be satisfied with an existence where they are tied to the home and unable to get out and about without making complicated arrangements for the care of someone who is dependent on them.

I don't know what sort of work you do cactus to arrive at such conclusions, but you seem to have a very negative view of human beings.

Life can be hard and people find themselves in bad situations.

All we can do is help as much as we can and try and make a difference

I have always said that if I win the lottery I would buy property for the homeless.

Thanks Dragonfly, and Carnationa. I'm not a saint, but I know a few people who are. That includes the carers who were paid the minimum wage to look after my husband when he could no longer get out of bed, and had no time allowed between patients and no mileage paid; the ones who dare not complain because they would be sacked, as there were plenty of people waiting for their jobs.
Having lived on benefits I do not criticise those who still have to unless I know their real circumstances. I know one person who probably plays the system, but I know quite a few more who do not have enough to live on.

I do not count the pension as being a benefit.My state pension is now nearly double what it was when my husband was alive, but I'd rather have him here to look after.