How many dead Palestinians ....

So, on our list of individuals who may be able to help mediate, goes Prof Dunn

I agree with Prof Dunn as well. He expresses my sentiments.

HAMAS seem to have an unlimited supply of weapons. Where are they all coming from?

Well done Margot James - who will be brave enough to be next?

blogs.channel4.com/cathy-newman-blog/exclusive-tory-mp-urges-government-rethink-gaza/874

And if they listened, it would only be because of a threat of the financial aid bring withdrawn. World at One today was profoundly depressing again on so many fronts but I remain stunned by the care and bravery of the UN staff in Gaza.

The only political leader Israel would listen to is Obama [or whoever else in the future is the President of the US.] Because of the huge amount of Jewish people in the US they will never really speak out as we would wish.

Yes - all the words spoken over the past few weeks and for me this sums it all up. I can't disagree with his analysis at all. But it also makes me sad because its so true but will make no difference. If only there were political leaders who would be brave enough to voice these thoughts

Now that I totally agree with.

His letter is not biased, which is nothing short of a waste of breath, although he clearly states he is a supporter of the State of Israel.

His reasoning is sound and his solution is exactly my thought too.

A good balanced letter that did not require nor use bile or hatred toward any party but simply expressed a good intention as to how this dire situation could hopefully be handled with diplomacy, not by partisan views which only serve to make the whole situation worse.

I like it.

I found this letter in today's Guardian a very helpful summary of the importance of the historical context

• I count myself as a supporter of the state of Israel, of its resettlement in its historic setting. But I have been distressed not only at the news of what is happening in Gaza, but also at the unwillingness of reporters and commentators to bring into the discussion the history of Israel’s re-establishment. I never thought that even the relative precariousness of Israel’s position in the Middle East justified the degree to which the Israeli state has been manifestly unfaithful to what I regard as its own Torah teaching on righteousness and justice, as reinforced by the prophets.

The fact that so few voices of eminent Israelites and Jews have been willing to admit the illegality and injustice of Israel’s West Bank settlement policy, pursued so relentlessly since 1967, I have found deeply disturbing. I acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel’s concerns in building the security barrier, but am distressed that no Elijah-like protest is to be heard or given publicity against the land-grab of the positioning of the barrier or at the abuse of traditional rights of Arab landowners and olive groves.

Nor can I defend the Hamas policy of firing rockets into Israel, but neither can I defend Israel’s policy of treating Gaza as little more than an extended prison camp. We must surely set the current catastrophe within its historical context. Since Israel owes the legitimacy of its status in the Middle East to a UN resolution, would it not be an obvious step forward for a properly representative UN panel to review the rights and wrongs of Israel’s expansion since 1948 and 1967, including the impact on the previous inhabitants of the region, and to recommend how Israel and Palestine might co-exist both peacefully and to the mutual benefit of each other in the future.
Professor James DG Dunn
Chichester, West Sussex

Lily - do you mean his X is bad, Y is worse .....?

Lilygran how does Dawkins come into it?

Are we talking about the atrocity last night where the Israelis targeted a UN school in Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza, killing at least 15 women and children whilst they slept?

I just read about it in this morning's Guardian.

The article also said that 97 percent of Israelis support further action of this kind.

I second everything Mishap has said. Last night's news coverage was heartbreaking.

I think that you will find that the FGM/Isis issue has been discredited though I agree how the news updates for those areas have taken a lower profile. There was a big article in the Guardian or Observer at the weekend re Syria .

Never thought I'd say this but I'm beginning to sympathise with Dawkins!

The BBC news coverage last night was horrific - those poor poor frightened and injured children - no political aim can justify this.

They then interviewed a prosperous-looking Israeli man who regarded the injured children as nothing more than unfortunate, and who fully supported more attacks.

How can anyone find a way through this when common humanity has been switched off?

Thanks Eloethan it was too late last night to read through the thread and see what had been posted since I was last in it.

I thought it addressed the OP's query about numbers of dead quite clearly. I'm shocked that the carnage in Syria and Northern Iraq seems to have taken a back seat in the media. Perhaps there's only so much death and destruction we can absorb, though the report that Isis intends all females in their new state to undergo FGM did disgust me.

aka Lilygran has already provided a link to this article. Not everybody thought it was well balanced.

I've not been following this thread for a couple of days but this article is looking at the issue from both 'sides' and is worth a read

newist I am glad you took the time to read up. Thanks. If more people begin to learn a little more about the history they would have a better understanding of the present.

There are some good books that help to paint a picture of the Palestinian situation.. 'Mornings in Jenin' by Susan Abuwalha (fiction) is worth a read. 'In Search of Fatima:a Palestinian Story' by Ghada Karmi (autobiography/ account) is another.

Iam' & Nonu
My comment was directed at the principle being promoted by Nonnie, and it should have been obvious, I thought, that comparisons between items was not intended, nur implied.
I, do not hold the deaths of 98, and 800 persons injured AT Hillsborough lightly, nor the consequential suicides, self harm, family breakdowns, mental health problems ...
The filth printed by the Sun newspaper(?) along mit the lies and coverups were not a call to 'challenge' - they were a punch in the face with a brick fur the damaged survivors.
''Twenty three years and 23 hours we've waited, and never forgotten.'' was the salute when the Hillsborough Independent Panel findings were finally made public
UK has some Statutes of Limitations, and some (misguided) people are seeking to have time limits set on paedophilia, murder, war crimes and rape prosecutions.
Do you both support those moves in the spirit of '' it is all about the future.'' ?
Thank you

penstemmon I had never heard the word Nakba before, I have just been reading about it. I am horrified as to what has been done and is still being done to the Palestinian people. I like so many others do not know what the answer is, and how the world can stand by and watch this happen. I posted earlier I fear as to what extend the Israelis will go to make sure they have "The Promised Land"

The two are incomparable !

IMO

Yes, the Hillsborough disaster is something that confirms the need to challenge authority. The situation isn't really compatible with what's happening in Gaza/Israel though imo.
The comment in my earlier post that we have to start where we are now, was not mean to say the history is irrelevant. We all have a responsibility to learn from our history, but the recent wars the UK have been involved with suggest our political leaders haven't learned from our own history, or those of the countries we've invaded over the years.
The history of the region under discussion is complex,and it won't help if those involved became ever more intractable.

I just regret that the rest of the western world still feels so guilty about the impact of Nazism on the Jewish people it cannot act to stop the Zionists now as thy try to annihilate Palestinians. Well said, and more eloquently and succinctly than I could