School phobia

The "rest of society in adult life" is a very different kettle of fish from a powerless child in a situation over which they have no control.

Childhood is a very precarious time - and we all want to do right by our youngsters during the one go they get at it. But we send them out of the door to be influenced by others, many of whom might have values we do not share, be poor at their jobs, be cruel peers etc. It is blooming tough.

I would have educated mine at home if it had been possible. Some of the influences they came under were not positive. For instance one DD was very bright - but the school she went to was so pushy that she came away thinking she was thick - they taught by humiliation. Another had some specific learning problems and was destroyed by the taunts of her teacher - we had to remove her from that school.

And another DD went to a school that was so bland and non-descript that she lost interest in most subjects. No firing up of the desire to learn there - mind you, who could blame them? - there were 1200 pupils!

We really have very little idea of what children are being subjected to when out of our orbit; and, whilst they need to have the corners knocked of them a bit, it needs to be at the right age and in the right place.

Schools can be difficult places for both staff and pupils - and children need to be under the influence of people who are not burnt out, exhausted and disillusioned by the system in which they are employed.

It is a bit of a lottery, and I for one felt very uncomfortable about subjecting my children to a system over which we had no control or influence. I wanted the best for them, but it was not to be had.

So when would you let them out into the real world?

The real world for children is a flawed education system - we need to protect them as best we may as they cannot protect themselves when they are small. If children are scared to go to school we need to ask why and not label them as having mental health problem.

But if everyone thought that way, what would happen to children whose parent/s didn't feel confident enough to home-educate them? Or those whose parent/s had to work full-time for financial reasons?

The only solution would be for Home-Ed to be financed by the taxpayer for everyone who opted for it. Where's the money coming from?

I don't think all schools are flawed. Not by a long way. Bullying has been tackled. And everything is done for the children. Kids are lucky these days. Things have greatly improved for many.

I don't think you would call it "mental health problems". Just a bit of expert outside help with development.

Ana - what happens is that children make their way through that flawed system. On the whole they have no choice, because parents do not have the confidence or the means to do otherwise.

Of course there are good schools and happy children in those schools, but I meet so many burnt out teachers who can no longer hack the system as it is.

Labeling a child as having a mental health problem (school phobia) is something that we never did - out first port of call was the system that induced the "phobia". We would have been failing in our duty if we had done otherwise.

I do not see it as help with development; I would not wish to encourage a child to develop the means to tolerate the intolerable. Some of these children had (and I am sure still have) very bad experiences of school indeed. I would not ask them to learn to tolerate it.

I am not anti-teacher - I know how they work their tripe out in a system that undervalues the work they do and keeps loading more targets and paperwork on them. But if a child is suffering under a system that often the teachers drop out of through sheer mental exhaustion, then I would not want that child to continue like that. We need to help them to find a school or a means of education in which they will be happy and thrive.

Being in an intolerable situation and avoiding it is not a phobia in either child or adult. Phobia is irrational fear. And children need protecting by the adults around them.

The teachers are burnt out because so much has to be done for the children these days. Hard for the teachers but excellent for the kids.

"their tripe out" Love it! We used to get tripe for the cat when I was little.

Or was that "lights"?

I think a lot of the burnout comes from the fact that it is hard for them to flourish as teachers and use their flair and imagination to inspire the children. It is all target driven.

My DD has just been to her son's parents evening and each 5 minute slot consisted of teachers waving achievement tables and graphs at them. Parents on the whole are not interested in these. But the teachers' lives are full of little else. I feel very sorry for them.

I am a school governor and the paperwork, policies, tables, graphs, improvement plans, evaluation forms etc etc would blow your mind. It is a tribute to these teachers that they manage to get any real work done.

Mishap, I think you misunderstood my point.

Of course I realise that the school environment isn't ideal for every child, but if everyone was given the option of home-schooling, so many would opt for it that the whole education structure, flawed as it may be, would break down.

I assume everyone is given the option of home schooling if they can prove they are able to satisfy the criteria (which, from what people on here have said, are quite flexible - at least, I assume, until secondary school age).

Just as a matter of interest, if someone is not a trained secondary school teacher (and don't secondary school teachers specialise in just one or two subjects?), would it be possible for them to continue home schooling and, if so, how?

I'm not sure that many people would want to home school as most families have two parents at work and the trend seems to be much more the other way, with schools providing before school and after school clubs.

If parents (and the child) has a preference for home schooling and the parent/parents have the ability, imagination, organisational skills and energy to provide a good education as well as regular opportunities for the child to mix with other children, then I think that's fine. It seems likely to me that not all children thrive in the school environment and there should be other options.

When my parents moved from outer London to a village in Suffolk I moved from an all girls secondary modern to a co-ed secondary modern, which I absolutely hated. I said that as soon as I could legally leave school, I would. My mum got me into another school (it was a sort of semi-grammar school - bilateral?) and, although I wasn't that keen on it there, at least I stayed to sit my exams. I can quite understand how a child can just not settle and feel constantly anxious in some schools, but may possibly be happier moving elsewhere or being home schooled. I agree with Mishap who said that children are too easily given certain labels when adjustments could be made to address their needs.

Today's DT has a report that Greg Wise and Emma Thompson have decided to home school their daughter,so they have built a schoolroom at the bottom of the garden and hired tutors. Now THATS the way to do it.

Perhaps I should have put this on the un schooling thread. Ah well.

Part of my DHs work involves visits to children 'educated otherwise'. Sadly most of the kids are not doing anything at all. Occasionally he meets a family who provide excellent education for their children. But mostly he sees young people who have been let down by the system and by their parents. Mostly they say the child won't get out of bed/do anything/are violent. These are likely to be youngsters who may have benefited from some psychological observation and help at an early stage. I do not want kids 'labelled' to write them off I want kids needs properly diagnosed or assessed so they get proper support to access their learning and development opportunities.

I don't think there is any danger of so many children being home-schooled that the system would break down - the vast majority of parents do not have the strength, ability or motivation to do so, particularly as both parents are very often forced to work.

The secondary school curriculum is well covered on the internet and in libraries; and a lot of home schooled children have specialist lessons from neighbours/friends/other home-schooling parents.

Home schooling that is not well organised is a pig's ear of course; but very often those children would also be the ones who fail at school.

All I am saying is that children should not be labeled with a psychiatric illness (which is what a phobia is) until all steps have been taken to alter the environment that is causing them distress. Most children with so-called school phobia are fine in other settings - what they have is a genuine and rational fear of a situation that is bad.

Here's a nice story about a girl who was taught at home, by her mother who had been a teacher:
www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-17923914
She later made films about her sister who has Down's Syndrome.
There's someone on another forum I belong to who took her son out of school at age 13 because he was unhappy and this seems to have worked - she lives in ?Cornwall and is part of a support group for children having home tuition.

But mishap medically speaking a diagnosis of phobia is irrational so whatever a school does a person with genuine phobia still needs help to overcome it. Different when it is about a child who is a natural worrier, has well founded reason to be anxious or had an upset over something that just needs sorting out! Agree totally that a school and family both need to help the child overcome their distress in these circumstances..

A phobia is by definition irrational - being afraid of a situation that engenders justified and reasonable fear does not warrant the diagnosis of phobia.

Isn't that what I just said??

Yes - but you are talking about help to overcome it - I am talking about getting the poor chap out of it! - rather than helping him to deal with something that he should not be asked to deal with in the first place! Though maybe that was included in your help.

Children who are unhappy at school waste their childhood in a miserable way - I can't bear to think of it.

My DGC has problems which are not caused by the school but their lack of understanding and help in the the face of a very unhappy child increased the fear and distress suffered. Now they have realised how serious this is they are doing all they can to help. I just wonder if they had reacted better in the first place we wouldn't be having the trauma we are going through now and loving parents wouldn't have been left fighting a battle with the authorities.

Parents do not want to home school because they want DGC to mix with other children and feel learning will be better handled at school but they also do not want a seriously unhappy and stressed child.

But mishap if a school has, say 250 pupils of whom 245 are happy and learning then that implies the school is doing something right. There are children who arrive at school with unrecognised syndromes / conditions and these may cause the child to find school frightening and overwhelming. If we do not discover why a child feels so distressed it is harder to support them and get the solution right. That might be needed whether school or home educated.
In my experience parents are seeking a diagnosis / reason why their child is 'different' from the majority and most want their child to be able to participate in school life. The parents who actively prefer to home school tend to have made that choice and don't register their child at a school.

If however a child is put off school due to a particular incident there then that is not usually a case for 'diagnosis' but investigation and resolution by school/family.

I understand what you are saying Penstemmon - and I am obviously not making my point very well! ....... which is that children are individuals and we should not expect that they should all slot into a school just because the other 90% do (or on the surface they do - I think that is important to remember). And we should not manipulate them to fit into such a system. Clearly education is valuable, but our systems are wedded to one way of doing things - if a child cannot cope with it, then some other way forward needs to be found that does not include labeling them as mentally ill. It is not an illness to feel desperately unhappy at school and afraid to go there.

I really do believe that children who truly enjoy school are in the minority. I also think that they mostly tolerate it and get something out of some of it. It seems to me to be a sorry waste of their youth and enthusiasm.