tricky discussion with son

This was just what I always had to remember when sent out as a SW to see a "problem family" - we needed to look for things that could be built on to help that person deal with life if they were finding it hard.

I'm back with motivational interviewing now. I love the concept. Get this:

^Motivational interviewing gains little momentum or effectiveness if you only think about problems. By way of illustration, consider the difference between these two accounts of the same person:

"She’s 46, female, 2 children, second marriage; chest infection; obese for many years; leads an inactive life. She’s a moderate to heavy drinker, smokes, and has a diet that is high in fried food, with little fruit or vegetables."
or
"She’s 46, an account manager and mother of two; very determined person. Its her second marriage, and she keeps a keen eye on her children’s well-being. It’s a happy house. They work and play hard. She feels unwell with a chest infection. She has lots of friends, smokes and drinks in the pub, and gets little exercise. She likes to make sure everyone has a good filling meal, and this often means friied food.

Change won't get off the ground unless we allow the human spirit to shine through.^

As an aside Oprah seems to fall out with her proteges on a regular basis - e.g. she fell out with Dr Phil and also with Iyanla van Zant. After the democratic elections in South Africa, you couldn't turn the TV on without Oprah being on there. She became very involved with SA, built a private school for girls there and all. She had a DNA test to trace her African heritage.

Apologies for digressing

Grannyknot - I also remember Dr Phil saying that - along with other things, like "I don't care how flat the pancake, there's two sides to every story" - and "if you marry for money you earn every penny". I DO miss that man!
And thanks for the link to motivational interviewing. This is exactly the sort of practical help I'm looking for.

annodomini - I don't think he has issues with women; he just has a Big issue with his need to be right and win the argument. For most of us, these arguments aren't that important but they probably escalate with his wife because the arguments ARE important (guessing).

Is it only his wife to whom he shows this verbal aggression? My ex was often like that with me and reacted badly if I shouted back. He didn't like assertive women and was actually reprimanded at work (FE College) for his rudeness to a librarian. Of course it was 'all her fault'. I put this attitude down to his mother having been a doormat to her domineering husband, though that may be an over-simplification. How does your DS react to you? Does he have issues with women other than his wife?

I remember Dr. Phil. His other question was "So when you (whatever the behaviour is, say, shout) how does that work for you?" (In other words, how is it affecting your relationships etc.)

You've reminded me about Motivational Interviewing - or how to have a conversation about change. There's a video about it on this link, but you could also just Google it for more info:

www.motivationalinterviewing.org/

Sorry - missed the bit about his being a father.

Sorry to have been "absent" today, but I do thank you all for your input and recognition that the situation is difficult. I love the idea of videoing him, but I don't have a smart phone (am I the only one who hates phones, let alone "smart" ones?), so while a great idea, not a practical one for me.

FlicketyB - I love your suggestions. This is the sort of thing I think would work and prove productive because he is a good son and a great father...so, yes, lots of things to praise. I have never seen him lose his temper with the children, so anger is not his default setting (though winning the argument is). Thinking about it - it seems to be his need to win the argument and BE RIGHT that fuels most of the verbal aggression I have witnessed.

Do any of you know Dr Phil? He used to be on Oprah but now has his own show (I only see it in the US). I always remember him asking someone "Do you want to be right or do you want to have good relationships?" THIS might be a way into a discussion!

You're right, granjura, some mothers would be saying 'she drives him to it' and defending their darlings.

Well done, Yankeegran

I take it that there are no dgc? How old is your son?

Yankeegran- I truly admire you for admitting YOUR son is at fault. Too often, mums will protect their own sibbling and make excuses for them- even if their behaviour is totally unacceptable. I also agree that his dad should have a strong word with him.

Yankeegran you said in your OP that he and his wife were arguing to such an extent someone asked if she was OK.
I don't know what the argument was about but if it was something unimportant it was a waste of time and energy arguing with him - it does take two. If it was important she could have just said 'let's discuss this later'.
I remember hearing about someone who stood silently whilst his new wife raged at him, then when she had finished he just quietly said 'I think you've just had our first argument'.

However, he does sound as if he needs pulling up because he has gone past what is acceptable and perhaps soon's suggestion is a good idea.

Do you know how she deals with this once they are alone?

A dear friend of mine was married to a man who was the same as your DS appears to be. Always had to have the last word and arguing aggressively. I asked her once why she put up with it and she said that she preferred not to make a fuss in public but ALWAYS pulled him up about it once they got home, when he would apologise. Not the way I would want to live but it seemed to work for them.

soontobe - I think that's a brilliant idea.

Video him.

A lot of people are surprised how they come across when they can see it.

I think, and I speak very warily on a situation with which I am not familiar with, but I think the way forward is to approach your son obliquely on this subject, coming from it, perhaps from your son's side of the problem.

Praise the good aspects of him. Is he, temper apart, a good and loving husband and son? Talk about other things in his life that show him up as a caring person, tell him how much you love and admire him then suggest that -he- must find it so frustrating that when there is so much that is good about him that he loses his temper so easily. Perhaps let this conversation arise when you are involved in a shared, enjoyable occupation where he is helping you - cooking, gardening or something like there.

You could, perhaps, talk to his wife first, again from a sideways approach. Tell her how frustrating and worrying you find his temper loss and how you are reaching a limit. Ask her how she feels about it. Let her know how much you love your son and all that is good in him, make it look as a joint approach to help someone both of you love. Let her feel at one with you in approaching your son.

It might be worth seeking professional help before you approach your son. Talk to a Counsellor or Psychologist about the problem and seek their advice on the best way to deal with this problem

Having been in a marriage at a early age with a very angry young man.i would of welcomed any help and advice from his parents.

Oh good luck with this Yankeegran. What a trying situation for you.

DD was picking on SiL last time they stayed here. I told her off just as I would have done ten years ago, and she took it. I think you should tell him off forcefully, I bet he will listen to you if you show him how awful you think his behaviour is. You are his mother and can tell him how it will make a woman feel.

I DO fully intend to have a conversation with him about it, but I want it to be productive and for it to result in his ability to see how his aggression (verbal, not physical) is undermining his relationship, which it must be. Nothing will be gained if I just make him defensive.

If my DS was aggressive to me, DDIL or anyone else in my prescence I'd certainly tell him that it was unacceptable behaviour, full stop.

Your DIL must live in fear of the next outburst, hardly a healthy environment for her or anyone else. The fact that he does this in public shows he certainly has an anger problem that needs sorting asap, as many posters have said.

Okay, he doesn't take criticism well, that's possibly why he's got away with it, but that's no excuse IMO.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you say it's been going on for years and his wife's now the latest victim of his abusive behaviour.

Good luck, not easy.

Before he is left I meant to say

I am not sure if it is worrying that his wife has given up and just gives in Nonnie. Perhaps she thinks if she ignores him
1. he will show himself up when they are out (as he has done),
2. talk himself to a standstill when no-one argues back and
3. retain her sanity by just walking away from him

Actually, I do think his father should take him on one side and ask him what his problem is. Before he left completely bewildered when he is left on his own.

I seem to be out on my own here but if it was my son I would definitely speak to him about this. I would choose my time and if he resorted to abusing me I would tell him he needed anger management tuition. You say you are close, as I am to mine, and because of that I think you can tell him. Why on earth not? It can't be good if it happens in front of the children and will be teaching them the wrong way to behave.

It seems worrying that his wife has given up and just gives in. If you can get her alone and find a way of talking about it maybe she would be happy to read a book about assertiveness. I think it would help her to know she has your support. Not over anything serious but I have agreed with 2 of my DiLs when they had a different opinion to my DSs.

I speak as someone who has experienced this sort of behaviour from my DiL and it has ended up with them separating. She abused him mentally and physically.

Ahhh, thank you! Gransnetters are a very supportive and caring bunch!