Grandson Mean

Both your GSs will more than likely turn out like their father if your DD stays with her husband, he is their role model. I feel more sorry for your four year old grandson having an older sibling physically fighting with him every day.

I agree with consequences and I would also tell your GS very firmly to not speak to you like that. Of course also give him hugs and tell him you love him, he is only six years old. All children need to know they are loved, it's the most important thing you can do, he must be terribly confused.

I was given 'How to Talk so Kids will Listen ...' Sometime later I found a teenage GD reading it, she commented 'This is good, nan!'
I was delighted as it was her previous behaviour which had led to our being given the book!
They do so change as they get older. One who used to mutter horrible things to me under his breath is now amazingly positive towards me. Sometimes so positive that I point out some of my imperfections as a parent and grandparent. He also reckons me one of the happiest people he knows - for me both a huge tonic and a reminder to make the best of things!! ??

Can I suggest you and your daughter both read "How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" and then I'd go on and read "Siblings without rivalry"

It sounds like your dgs is very unhappy and he is telling you all through his behaviour. You know he doesn't have to love his brother but he does need to treat all people kindly - there is a difference.

Please don't abandon your daughter if your SIL is controlling/abusive towards her. Stop giving your dgs the power by leaving when his behaviour is hurtful.

"I hate you, I like x better", "Oh you are mad at me today, why's that?"

Please help them x

You all have been extremely helpful. Your comments/suggestions are well taken.
The one thing about my SIL is he is mean/controlling with my daughter. He gets his disposition and attitude from his father, who has a very bad attitude toward women. SIL parents are divorced. He is not a happy man and will tell you that.
I have left and returned home when visiting due to his behaviour. When I leave it hurts my daughter. I'm caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

nana3923 his behavior towards you must be very hurtful - to be honest I wouldn't put up with it!

His problems can only be addressed, in the main, by his parents and I have to say that your SIL sounds to be at the root of the child's bad behavior.

On your weekly visits is it necessary to stay the night, are you providing childcare? If not maybe you could just visit for a few hours and then come home, this way would certainly be less stressful for you. Also, maybe SIL resents your weekly sleepovers?

I agree that you need to hide the hurt- you need to keep it lighthearted when he says that he hates you with something like 'just as well I have enough love for two' then' and change the subject.
I am surprised that people suggest cutting him out of your life when he is a very young child, a child with problems, and your grandchild.
Children can adapt to different approaches and you just need to sort your own out with your DH and stick to it. What the other grandmother does isn't something you have to bother about or try and emulate.

I'm wondering about the father's attitude to you, Nana. This may be rubbing off on the child. It sounds as if HE doesn't show respect to you. This may be where the problem lies. And it does sound from what you say that the parents are confusing the issue by not being consistent in their approaches.

Our own children and their partners are quite strict about their children's attitudes to all their grandparents, ensuring that the GCs understand about respect. DH and I will not tolerate disrespect either. We make this clear and DH backs me up always. I am talking here about the DCs that we mind.
Lots of praise, love and cuddles for good behaviour. Explaining that rudeness and aggression (which many small children show occasionally out of frustration) are not acceptable.

Those who commented on the concept of consistent boundaries have it right, I think, although consistency between the 2 grandmothers' approaches is maybe not so essential. Children learn to deal with different rules in different situations, as this child shows by his good behaviour at school (which probably rules out ADHD and autism). Although from what you have said, the other GM has NO rules. I wonder if she is being a competitive GM, trying to be the most loved one.

I don't think young children are benefitted by having no boundaries. To me, one of the key things they need to learn is to relate positively to a range of people and knowing what is not acceptable behaviour is part of socialisation.

Finally, I would suggest that, although you are understandably upset by this child's nasty behaviour to you, you try not to show it. It is perhaps giving him some sort of power over you, just as he exercises power over his sibling. Easier said than done, I know.

I do really feel for you.

Sounds like he has ADHD.
nana3923, my advice is stay away. He is not your child, and he is obviously stressing you very much. You can get yourself ill over this which is no good if you are in your senior years. Leave it to his parents to get help from the professionals. I feel for you but you should make a decision quickly.

Maybe nana3923's DH could take the little boy aside next time he does anything nasty and ask what the problem is.
Trying to look at things from his point of view, he may be feeling miserable at home or school, causing him to act up.

I wasn't suggesting that she could do anything about the other grandmother- just pointing out that she is a big part of the problem.
I think that you can only go with Elegran's advice.
nana3923 isn't able to be tough and so her husband needs to support her. This is a child who doesn't try it on with firm rules but does as he likes without any.

Yes, Sherish I have so often seen a parent (or grandparent) keep threatening again and again that some retribution would happen if the bad behaviour was repeated once more - then do nothing again and again. The same with promising a treat if they are good and then not carrying it out. And then they say the child doesn't pay any attention to them!

But the threat has to be realistic and capable of being carried out - one of the worst things I heard was a mother in a supermarket to an unruly child - "Mummy won't love you any more if you that again!"

What a problem, you have my sympathy. My oldest daughter (now 46) was a rather strong character although not mean when she was little. My instructions to Grandma (my mum) who spoiled her terribly, and anyone else was to always keep threats and promises. This would mean that if we threatened her with any kind of punishment it would be carried out and likewise if we promised good things it would happen. She soon learned to believe what she was told. If someone had told her she would be put in the car and taken home then she would certainly be in the car and on her way home for the next naughty thing. It mainly worked for us. Just a thought.

Good luck, I know how upset this will be making you.

Ranting at him or giving back as bad good as you get just makes a fight of it.

When his birthday comes round, it would be a good moment for his grandfather (whose disapproval he seems to understand) to take him aside and give him a man-to-man talk on the lines of him no longer being just a silly baby who doesn't know what effect his words and actions have on others, and that he is old enough now to treat people as well as he likes them to treat him.

He could ask him whether he or his grandmother say things to him as nasty as some of the things he has sometimes said to his grandmother? The answer is no, of course (or should be ) so then grandfather can say that from now on, he will not stand for the boy saying anything bad again, or hurting his grandmother, and that if he does, he will be taken out of the house at once.

Then comes the crunch - when it does happen, the promised result should happen, at once or as soon as possible. and again if necessary, and again. Probably a good thing to warn his mother that this "re-education" is being undertaken!

A the same time, he needs to get praise whenever he is nice (even a little bit nice!) or when he does something well, or makes something, and not made to feel that he is bad, only that sometimes what he does is not right and that it is a praiseworthy thing to resist doing those things.

My Grandaughter can more than hold her own with her brother and can have a vicious temper. But she has leant that when/if she looses it with me and lashes out, she gets the same back. Obviously not with the same force that she would use, but it only took a couple of 'instances' I don't even have to use the 'look' now.
If the father is rude to your face, what does he say when your not there?
This boy is listening to all this. He see's a weakness and goes for it.

Leticia - you may well be right about the other grandma, but there's nothing that Nana 3923 can do about that. All she can do is change her own reactions/behaviour, supported by her husband.
As you say, this is a child who knuckles down if he knows he can get away with things, so he needs to presented with stronger limits from his Nana.
Not easy to change though.

His other grandmother seems to be the problem with her odd ideas- if she brought up your SIL like that I can see that he has similar odd ideas. Grandson is probably getting very mixed messages and that is why he is fine at school where he knows the rules.
If he doesn't do it with your husband he is reading the signals and only tries it on with you. Your husband needs to stand up for you. Instead of saying that he will take him home he needs to make it clear from the start that if he is mean to Grandma he gets put in the car and returned- and then- most importantly- carry it through.
Clearly this is a child who knuckles down if he knows he can't get away with things but does as he likes if he can- and that is what he does with you, his mother and his siblings.
Since the parents are not going to make a difference you need your husband helping. Never make a threat that you won't carry through.

I can't add much to what others have said, except that it could result from an extreme case of sibling rivalry. His feelings against his brothers carried over to you.
I do think though, if I was in your shoes, I would say something to him like "that's not the way kind boys behave" etc. He might reply "I'm not a kind boy" or similar.
At 6 he's too young to discuss things morally. I'm not saying he needs therapy, but if he did, it would be play therapy, acting out, or drawing, not discussion.
One of my grand daughters used to say hurtful things to me when she was about 3, but has grown out of it now.

Echo what Far North has just said. It's good to talk on here as it often gives a different perspective on things. Also good to refer back to things after a while when things may have changed somewhat.

Please don't feel you are bothering anyone here. We all like to try and help each other.

Does he get much individual attention from his parents?
If not, maybe it would be an idea for you to look after the 4-year old and, if possible, the 10-month old, so that his parents can do things with him.

Hello all ... Replies to some of your comments. Then I won't bother you any more.
- his other gran is the one who takes him to the beach often (she lives 10 mins away), takes him and family on expensive vacations, which is wonderful for them. I cannot compete with these things and do not try to.
It is just difficult and often feel we do not fit in
Thinking of returning to where we left.

groan. x post.
I am going to stop posting.

Do you both stay over when you go?

It must be so hard for you. I can see it's as if his other gran feeds him chocolate and you only give him cabbage. He sees you as the person who tries to discipline him and that feels bad to him. I would say try to find something positive in his behaviour you can praise. I know it sounds odd but when I was teaching I saw some really difficult children turned around because they were given positive comments. It isn't easy for you and you are not getting the family support you need. But I do think this little boy needs you. He sounds very unhappy and sad. Is there something he really likes doing that you could bring to him-like trips to see steam trains or looking at dinosaurs? So that you become the gran who does things he enjoys and not the gran who makes him do as he is told. Perhaps a collection of things at your house (where they are safe from his little brothers) and add to it when he is good. I hope things improve and you are all happier soon.

Sounds to me he has learnt to be disrespectful to women or people he feels are less than him,younger siblings . etc