Daughter in Law wants Advice

Did it sound hostile? Sorry. It was very much tongue in cheek as you were making the life of a secondary English teacher sound so idyllic!!

It's a touchy subject as I watch my DD and her colleagues struggle in our English system. Possibly she tries too hard, having been ranked as 'an outstanding teacher' at every OSTED inspection.

Strange that I should talk about the difference between the Scottish and English systems as my niece and her (teacher) husband spent time with us over the summer holidays and we had a family meal. My DD and her (ex teacher) husband naturally got into a discussion about their respective experiences and there were stark differences between the two systems, not just the curriculum but what we are discussing on this thread.

PS Forgot to make it clear my niece teaches at Jordanhill in Glasgow and her husband somewhere in Motherwell.

Idyllic? Dawdle? How on earth do you make these assumptions from my posts?
Any experienced teachers will agree that management styles can make or break the morale of staff.
If any worker at any level achieves a satisfactory balance does that automatically mean that life is idyllic or a dawdle?
Sweeping statements indeed!
Should we then agree that unless we are stressed and on the point of giving up then we simply aren't working hard enough?
Maybe I should be suggesting that the DIL of the op along with her husband, should be seeking posts north of the border.

I CBA to deal with rants like this.

I believe you CAN do supply teaching as an NQT now. My neighbour could not get a full time post and has been told that if she does REGULAR supply it can count as her probationary year. If she does it part time, however, she will take longer to complete her 'year'.

I'm a bit puzzled about all this. I thought teacher training these days included a lot of school based training, ie doing the job. If that's so, it should, at least in theory, weed out the trainees who are not going to make it at an early stage. How is it this NQT got as far as she did and found the job was not for her?

Tresco, spot on. Teaching IS tough to start with but as a newly trained teacher she needs and deserves a lot of support and the school is at fault if she is not getting it. Tell her the motto is "Never smile before Christmas" Might raise one from her.

NotTooOld there may be nothing 'wrong' with this young woman's ability to teach, it might be that, as an NQT, she's been thrown in at the deep end, with no support and too full a timetable. NQTs ought to have a reduced time table, to ease them into their new career.

You are correct that now you can do supply teaching and collect the requisite number of hours required to complete your probationary year.

flutterby spot on

PS I taught for many years as a senior lecturer in an FE college. I also tutored and taught on a CertEd programme. The CertEd students who did well were either charismatic, confident people who knew their subject inside out (ie they didn't need to do too much prep) or they were extremely well organised, methodical and conscientious (they did a lot of prep). There are not too many of the former but, fortunately, a goodly number of the latter. I would suggest that anyone not falling into either category is going to struggle in the classroom. I should add that I did occasionally come across a teacher who fell into both categories but they were very few and far between.

Anya - I was not actually commenting on the rightness or wrongness of her teaching - just the fact that she is not coping with it. I am very sympathetic to her cause - it would have been in her interest to have found out at an earlier stage that she it is not for her.

Where has this dawdle come from? I thought it was doddle.

Dawdle, doddle, dawdle, doddle - let's call the whole thing off.

NotTooOld if she has got this far it is most likely that her previous TPs were successful and she qualified OK. If she had landed a job at a school with a good record of supporting NQTs she may well have gone on to have a successful career.

Who knows?

Ah shucks flutterby I was hoping that no one would notice

Get your red pens out!

Especially after mcem got her knickers in a twist a tad annoyed!

NotTooOld your post is interesting because I too was a full time lecturer in FE and also taught the old C&G 730 Certificate course for Further and Adult Teachers and I was just thinking that perhaps another alternative for the OP's DiL is to transfer her skills into Adult Education. It wouldn't pay as well, but it would mean she wouldn't change careers, just direction to teach adults instead of children. I stopped teaching in 1999, so my knowledge of the Adult and Further Education work place is old and I wondered what you think?

They're really cutting back on adult education at the moment I think; my daughter switched to more college based work but is now back in a school. Also there aren't the supply teaching jobs that there used to be.

Tegan I had noticed that the leaflets we get about the range of courses available locally these days is very limited. Most are either IT related or basic skills courses. I was thinking about the OP's DiL being able to transfer to teach English at some level. I don't look at job vacancies these days, so I'm not aware of what is advertised. In my day you started part time and took on extra hours until you were full time. Not ideal for the OP's DiL, but something else to think about maybe.

She did very well during her PGCE. She's very organised and works extremely hard. There was no sign of her wanting to throw in the towel during this year. She especially liked one the the schools where she worked and really enjoyed that placement. The second school was not quite for her. It was in a very middle class area and she felt that all that was required of the teachers was to force feed the kids facts, whereas she felt getting them to think for themselves is more important. The school where she got the job is middle of the road in terms of area and on paper seemed ideal

I think some of the problem might be the high standards she sets for herself. Although really I have no idea what's gone wrong. When I see her tomorrow I'm going to encourage her to talk it all through.

Sadiesnan I think getting her to talk it through is ideal. Just let her do the talking and listen really hard. Try not to advise, at least not until she's talked herself out.

Questions you might ask are along the lines of
'Has she discussed this with her mentor/HoD?'
'Does she have anyone else at the school she feels she can talk to?'
'Is there anything that might make her change her mind?'
'Would a change of school help?'

If she's done a PGCE then she already has a degree. Is there any other way she could use her qualifications? Perhaps taking a course in teaching English as a second language? My DD did that after her degree for a couple of years before going on to do her PGCE.

But please don't rush in with these questions (I'm sure you wouldn't anyway) until she's unburdened herself completely.

I agree - don't probe. Let her talk if she wants to and lend a listening ear. I wonder if there was any one particular incident that turned her off.

Good point anno - perhaps on particular class. The final straw which drove me into primary teaching was being timetabled to teach 3G Maths last thing on a Friday afternoon

on one

Totally agree with letting her tell you as much as she is able. You might also at some point drop into the conversation that you have heard (and you don't need to say how) that there are some schools that don't give support to NQTs they should. Sometimes NQTs think it is all their fault things are going wrong and they are in some strange way 'loyal' to the school they imagine has given them the chance of starting the career they really wanted. Please try to reassure her and let her know she can move on if that is what she wants with your full support and understanding. Teaching is never easy and even experienced teachers come across situations where they can't cope. Her skills and talents sound great all she needs is the right opportunity to use them.

I think the comments on here from those in the profession seemed very wise. It's sad when well-meant comments get misconstrued, but I think the Internet is to blame in a way as tone of voice is lost and the odd well-meant irony can come across as something more than was intended. I've never taught but was telling DD2 yesterday about this situation. She headed Modern Foreign Languages until she had her first baby and her husband is still in senior management at the same school. She now works part time there and feels for Sadiesnan's dil, agreeing that if there is a glimmer of hope that she might still want to teach then every possible help should be given to her. DD explained to me about English being a core subject and the fact that every child has to do it which makes it an onerous subject to teach. She felt that a lot more should be done to help that young woman, but again, as others have said, if it was the wrong choice, then the training should help her in another profession. My DD loves her languages and her pupils but agrees that staff can be difficult and there are so many levels at which teaching can be stressful, pressure from the head, having to implement policies one disagrees with, head against a brick wall. Her DH always goes in during half term and summer holidays, so the endless holidays can be a bit of a myth. All the best to Sadiesnan's dil and hope the meeting next week is helpful.