How do young children learn about right and wrong?

Manners, morals and concern and kindness to others are a sign of a civilised society.

I remember reading The Water Babies when I was young: if more people followed Mrs Do-As-You-Would-Be-Done-By then the world would be a better place.

Oh dear where do I start?

I am assuming you are being a bit of a devil's advocate trisher. Not sure I agree that morality is that relative. To steal, whether it is dodgy tax forms or shoplifting is stealing. Not saying I've not done either just saying I do know they are wrong and the odd case of childhood sweetie pinching left be wracked with guilt for weeks. Then, when my parents found out I was mortified, punished and very reluctant to do anything similar again. As to it being a class thing.....oooer! I've known some very well to do types pinching stuff from the high end shops I used to work in in Oxford.
And as my daughter never failed to complain about when she worked for the DPP, there was some pretty blatant thievery going on via the claims being made.
Being dishonest is stealing......you are gaining something by immoral means and whether that's an MP fiddling his expenses, a drug addict burgling your home or a child pinching his friend's chocolate bar. Not saying they are by any means EQual and should be treated the same....but they are wrong, and its up to us to instil a decent moral code in our children usually by example and little and often.

And, of course, the cost of shoplifting is reflected in the prices honest people pay in the shops!

We may teach our own children morals and that all stealing is wrong but it is very difficult to instil these values to children who are raised in families where stealing is the norm. You are in fact undermining parents who are bringing up children in an area where managing them is a problem anyway. These children do have moral codes but they are complicated and different to ours. I am not saying we shouldn't tell them what we believe but that we should realise that they may choose to ignore us and taking the moral high ground achieves nothing. In any case I think it is far more understandable to buy a pair of shoes you know to be stolen because your child needs new shoes than it is for an MP to fiddle expenses. One is necessity the other is greed.

A bit simplistic perhaps - many shoes and clothes, gadgets, tvs, tablets, computers, to order- by some groups in some parts of the population are branded goods, with posh labels, and not at all due to 'necessity'. Out of 'necessity' there are plenty of very cheap alternatives in charity shops all over the country. Just Saying.

Granjura's post on page one:

We did not study Kohlberg at my School of Ed but it sounds like something that would have been helpful to me when very young. I was about eleven and at Sunday school when I asked the teacher why we should do good deeds, like helping old ladies across roads, just to go to heaven and be with Jesus. Shouldn't we do it because the old lady needed it and it was the right thing to do? She didn't know what to say and I was marked down from that time as a trouble maker and left soon after. My Dad, however, an atheist, was proud of me and that was enough.

Children should be taught to be kind just because it is required, not for reward. Kindness is the attribute that makes us human. All my grandchildren are kind, and that makes me as proud as my old Dad was.

I don't think the Good Samaritan was thinking about going to heaven to be with Jesus.
I never heard that at Sunday School!

The good Samaritan was helping somone from a community that thought he (the Samaritan) was an inferior foreigner with no regard for the law who followed an alien religion and who was to be despised and shunned.

I once taught a class of 6 to 8 year olds. The two most polite children were 6 year old girls who definitely knew the difference between bad and good behaviour. I also for a while, taught a class of 6 year old girls in a private school and I was amazed by the way they would say, "Excuse me," to each other and always please and thank you.
Who was it who said, "Give me the boy and I'll give you the man?" Actually I think there are different versions of this attributed to different people but it is in fact true. By the time a child starts school the damage, or otherwise, is already done.
Expecting teachers some of whom, being only human, have morals and/or manners which leave much to be desired, shouldn't be expected to make up for the shortcomings of parents.

However, I do believe that 'morality' and 'politeness/manners' are not at all the same thing.

These are the values of the month at our local school: co-operation, caring, respect, tolerance, honesty, responsibility, patience, courage, trust, love, hope. Assemblies and some other activities centre round the value each month. OfSted will inspect for this aspect of education.

"And as my daughter never failed to complain about when she worked for the DPP, there was some pretty blatant thievery going on via the claims being made."

Who did your daughter complain to? Herself? Did she put it right?

No matter what you try to tell them, children learn by example, so if someone sneaks out for a smoke and the child sees them its no good trying to tell them not to smoke etc etc.

I remember being in a house where the mother put a plate of sausages and chips on the floor and the two small children dived in to the plate like animals, I was horrified, they had no manners at all, the mother kept on watching tv and ignored them. I think of my DGD who eats at the table and has good manners and feel glad. It doesn't take lots of brains to teach kids manners just a tiny bit of effort which seems lacking nowadays.

And as for morals, if some of the young madams of today would just see the kind of diseases they might pick up by sleeping around they might think twice.

I believe it is the Jesuits (Ignatius Loyola?) who said "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man".
And you are right there is the problem with teaching morals in schools- ideas are already formed. It is possible to modify children's behaviour within the school but when they are at home they will apply the standards that are accepted there.

Its hard to teach morals today when young girls are allowed to roam the streets dressed like tarts, aping their older siblings. The clothes that are available for the very young are unbelievable tarty, why cant children be children. I often see small girls with faces full of make up and high hells (aged about 5).
They copy the mothers who swagger about dressed like this all day either that or are in their dressing gowns, kids 'do as we do' not 'as we say'.

It is parents/family who should teach children the difference between right and wrong, nurseries, playschools and schools reinforce this as children move out of the immediate family group.

Primary schools actively promote good behaviour and values. They have to and I cannot imagine a teacher who would not want to!! They do this in all kinds of ways e.g. it is very usual for children, under the guidance of a teacher to write the rules for the class (these usually reflect the school rules!) In my experience children have an innate sense of what is 'fair' and think up far more draconian punishments than most adults would!!

If children see adults behaving in an anti-social way: dropping litter, swearing, fighting etc. it will not help children to learn to behave differently but some do grow up to totally reject their parents' poor example.

Exactly. Children learn by example. They copy behaviour they see around them. Even Great-tits, most of whose behaviour is thought to be instinctive, learn by example (cf recent story of great-tits eating the brains of live bats).

Durhamjen, oh it was always noticed by her and other staff and therefore denied .....I only mentioned it because people thought they could get away with it and had some strange 'justifications' for their acts.

I should have used the phrase 'potential thievery' in my post.

Thanks to Grans and Grandpas!
And Hilda - just read your post before my Sunday am post - good to know that young children can still survive conflicting examples from parents.
Something else I'm reading at the moment made me think that morals are only considered to be part of an established religion now, but thanks to your replies it looks like that's not so, more like something inbuilt that most people have a feeling for.