Birth partner and "The 4th trimester" - Advice please!!!

Most Fathers just took a few days or a week from their annual leave which was only 2/3 weeks annually.
I think that when Father's take the statutory leave now they are only paid a nominal allowance so many can't afford to take it.

Thank you for the explanation, HR2204.
Have the new parents said that they will limit the GPs to one visit only?
I am sure that they will explain things to the other two GPs and will bear in mind the short time that the GF will be in the UK.
Rather than the young couple being expected to consider others' feelings and to allow lots of visiting, it could be that the others should be the ones showing consideration for new parents who want to do things in their own way.

Lord I sound old but my OH had no paternity leave at all, I came out of hospital and he went to work. With second DD we lived in a semi derelict farmhouse 1000ft up in the Peak District, my inlaws lived in Spain, my own mother worked full time and lived way down in the south. I was on my own with a toddler and just had no option but to get on with it. I would have LOVED someone to come and interfere!!!! Having said that I had 10 days in hospital with the first and a week with the second, so had established feeding etc and a sort of routine while still in hospital and of course did not have to do any catering! Times change but I cannot see how most companies could possibly cope with fathers being absent for an entire month.

Granarchist - My husband's has a very generous paternity leave policy. Most fathers are only allowed a week or two paternity leave.

So husbands are able to take a MONTH off work?????? How exactly?

Sounds to me as bonkers as birth plans. Its odd how when reality kicks in these amazing-on-paper plans fly out of the window. Some people need time alone and some people will be grateful for all the help they can get. Obviously visitors should be sensitive to the situation but DD1 had C-sections both times and was grateful for all the help I could provide. DGD no 1 went through a true screaming phase and to allow DD and sIL some peace I took baby off in car with Radio 1 (I am a saint) playing at full volume for over an hour to allow the new parents just a tiny respite from the colicky one.

I was birth partner no 2 for DD2 as her OH was nervous and she is my adopted DD and her birth mama is dead - I actually was the first to hold DGS - I passed him to his father, waited til they were all absorbed in cord-cutting etc and then buggered off - they did not need me any more. It was a brilliant event and they were amazing - second time round I was not required which was lovely as they then had the confidence to crack on by themselves.

I do think the young are bombarded with so much conflicting advice especially on-line. My advice would be to listen to close friends in their peer group who they respect, trust to instinct, and ask mothers and mothers in law so long as you respect their views too.

wendysue just to clarify the expectant couple intend to let visitors meet the new arrival once - and then stay away unless invited , for the next month of paternity leave to allow the 3 to bond, Mother, father and baby.
As maternal grandparents I am fine with that, but now I realise I was overly concerned with other GPs feelings as they are more the sort of folks who would expect free access and drop in unannounced ......plus the other GF is flying longhaul to visit for that first month.

I am just hoping that daughter and partner will allow them more access to the baby as they have other GC and are a very close family..... I can cope with the "exclusion zone" but will be available if needed .

I have been overwhelmed with responses to the thread and it has been so supportive ,informative and a great learning experience for me.
HR2204 thanks for a great explanation of the fourth trimester and I for one feel I am "lurking" on here too as not officially a Gran till April 6th or thereabouts!
Some of the stories here have made me smile and some have made me feel sad at the hurt that can result. That really is what I was trying to circumvent but I feel the right advice to let them get on with is the best. But I am very glad I shared my own concerns and had such great feedback. If the post does not become dormant I will let you all know how it pans out ! Thanks again ladies x

*HR2204 thanks for taking the time to explain more about the 4th Trimester idea.

What an interesting thread. And I feel envious of people who obviously live within easy visiting distance of each other. And slightly surprised how many people do still have extended family nearby .And how many new grandmas are not themselves working !
Very few of my own friends' children live locally. Nor do mine ,though am not a granny myself yet .Friend became a grandma just before Christmas .Visited (staying in hotel) while DIL was still in hospital and has been down once for the day since .They are coming up with the baby this weekend. Friend works ft .I think DIL mum lives near them though and has recently retired .Another friend's son lives in Germany They went over when DG was new born in July ,again in Sept .Their DDs have been over to meet their new nephew and the family has been over here twice.I think these circumstances are much more the norm these days?
When DD1 was born my DParents were120 miles away my in laws 100.
My DPs came to stay for the weekend (DDad still working) with my DB ,when the baby was a week old and my DM stayed on for a week .DH had had a week off and I knew that if my DM were there he would have 'abdicated' to her .My ILs came when she was two weeks,I think just for the weekend (first DG on both sides).
We had no local family.Neighbour over the road with whom I'd become friendly while on maternity leave would drop in for coffee and a cuddle but never outstayed her welcome .Oldest and closest friend called by en route from her parents house back to hers -diverted to visit -when baby was three weeks ,and stayed with us a little while later ( her marriage in crisis so we were supporting her) My deputy at work came to see me. Otherwise most of my local friends ,met at NCT and clinic classes, were either heavily pregnant or very new mothers themselves and we started to meet up when the babies were a few weeks old . I certainly wasn't inundated with guests and I think I would have felt overwhelmed. The ideal would have been to have my mum nearby to drop in for an hour or so every couple of days ....I am a very sociable person and I have a lot of friends ,though tiny family,but I rather enjoyed that period of quiet and calm
I saw the family from Germany on their Christmas visit .The dad is off sick from work so both parents have been with the baby since he was born They seemed very relaxed parents, she very supported, he very involved and the baby was a delight I think they may have inadvertently had a fourth trimester (I think it just means a fourth three month period )

I think the key point is that they do not want uninvited guests for the first month, which I think I reasonable. My very social DS and DIL virtually had an open house when DGD 1 was born, lots of friends and family constantly in and out. When DGS was born three years later they let close family visit but other people were invitation only. Much better for them and nobody took offence. Family still visited. I am sure they thought of this plan by themselves .

I want to start off saying that I'm not a gran and I'm definitely unlikely to be one for a number of years as my DS is only 10 months old. I have lurked on this board in an attempt to understand my MIL (I still don't 'get' her - clash of personalities I think). I wanted to attempt to explain the 'fourth trimester' as I understood it, not that I really paid a huge amount of attention to it. I was only aware of it through my 'birth group'.

My understanding of the fourth trimester is that it mainly focuses on the transition from the womb into the world. The thought is that when a baby is born it has no actual awareness of what has happened. One moment the baby is in the warm, dark, quiet womb with all its needs automatically taken care of, the next it is in the cold, bright, noisy world where it has to work to ensure that its needs are met.

The main thinking is that to ensure smooth transition the baby should be in close proximity to its 'primary caregiver'. This means lots of skin to skin, access to the breast on demand, ideally co sleeping, responding to your baby immediately. This is possibly the 'bonding' that the OPs DD is going on about. It is thought that the first few weeks/ months are extremely important in ensuring that your baby grows up to be an emotionally healthy, well rounded adult.

The idea of limiting/ banning visitors isn't really anything to do with the fourth trimester and is more to do with regaining some control and not allowing people to waltz in and take over. The pregnancy and baby boards are filled with stories of family members who ruin the post-partum period by turning up unannounced and taking over. Often new mothers don't want to offend family members but they also want the chance to prove they can be a parent on their own.

FWIW, I never 'banned' anyone but we did limit visitors. My parents saw my DS at the hospital and they were also saw him the day I came out of hospital a couple of days later. My in laws saw him a few days after I got out of hospital. These first visits were only a couple of hours long and my husband had to act as a filter.

I must admit I really hated these early visits and I don't have fond memories of them. I had a traumatic birth and really didn't want to see anyone. I was feeling extremely vulnerable and was still trying to figure out what had just happened. It took me a couple of months to start to feel myself again.

DD1 had twins by planned Caesarian . I paced the floor 150 miles away waiting for the phone all to tell me she was ok, which was delayed because there were some complications with the delivery. She asked for nobody to go the day after (still in hospital) but both sets of grandparents and her sister and SILs sister visited the following day. She was given no help in hospital despite trying to feed two babies in great pain, staff were horrible. I insisted she had a wheelchair to get down to the car when she was discharged they thought she could manage to walk . I stayed for a week several times during the next few months and her sister visited several times a week as she had PND and the babies hardly ever slept at the same time. I loved the babies to distraction and just wanted to make it easier for her, she was so grateful to me and her sister for all the help. I hope it's the same for you, enjoy grandchildren are wonderful.

GrannyPiggy, so sorry to hear what DD and all of you went through. But TG, baby came out ok! Bless you for rolling with the punches and just being there if and when needed.

Sue, I'm glad the hospital/home explanation helped. Part of it may have to do with the naming ceremony, too. Again, they may not have been able to see asking you to fly out for that and then go home, only to come back again a few weeks later. Probably you and DH wouldn't have minded/would have been thrilled to come both times. But they may not have realized that. Honestly, it sounds as if DS and DIL just didn't figure things out very well. And that they seem to have realized that since they did differently the second time. It feels as if you're still a bit resentful about that first experience - I hope you can let that go...

"Therefore for the first month no uninvited visitors to allow a bonding period between the three of them."

Ok, this ^ is confusing, perhaps even for the OP. Yes, it says "no UNINVITED guests." But it also says "to allow a bonding period BETWEEN THE THREE OF THEM."

So it still sounds to me as if they may mean they really don't want anyone else around that first month.

Maybe the "uninvited' was thrown in, just in case they do decide to ask the GPs to come over and help.

Or cuz they feel they need to have that GF over a few times.

Or perhaps they're only planning to have a few people at a time for brief periods - so yes, that would still allow them plenty of time to bond as a family unit.

But it's not clear to me...

Amber?

I arrived home with 4 day old baby (we had a flat tyre on the journey) to find dmil and dfil sitting in the driveway. It was 5.30 pm and in my naivety I said nothing and proceeded to make them a fry up. It was the start of a long and intrusive relationship where 2 well meaning gpil didn't respect our space, my reluctance to cause any upset over the years and a h who didn't see a problem.

Definitely young parents should be clear about what they want and alas dgps have to deal with it and hope it settles in a way that makes everyone happy.

This is the first I've heard of fourth trimester.

No1gogo thanks and welcome to GN!

Yes, I think I understand it's the idea of being classed a a guest when you're the grandparents or other close family. Playing it by ear sounds like the way forward.

Ha ha, I will learn my way around gransnet.

Wilmaknickersfit you are right, "NO UNINVITED GUESTS" Why do I still feel so angry? I think it's the word "guests" and the connotations of what that means. As parents of the new parents, it would hurt to be thought of as "a guest" therefore feel excluded. What do you all think?

(by the way I love your handle) (smile)

I think the word most people are missing is uninvited.

Nobody is banned. Sending out a message that visitors should not just turn up when they feel like it sounds pretty sensible to me.

I forgot to say that friends & relatives should not visit the new family without first phoning to make sure it was a convenient time to do so..

OMW, whatever next? 4th trimester!!! Who came up with this bright idea? (angry) Didn't previous generations before this "enlightened" generation bond with their babies? (confused) Seems like flaming stupidity and selfishness to me. Feel free girls to add your own expletives, second thoughts, rather not, if we had free reign to vent our spleens goodness know what we would come up with......
This idea to bond to create a close knit family comes at the expense of other close family members. This is a hair brained idea that comes with a high chance of alienating loving parents/grandparents.

I agree with jinglebellsfrocks, bottom line, it's cruel and ridiculous. Of course that's just our opinion. Never the less amberdogxK9 lets hope your daughter changes her mind. Congratulations, you are will make this baby a fabulous granny.

I wonder if she felt overwhelmed by conflicting advice, JessM?

SIL's family and friends have a different culture and expectations and poorly DD was totally overwhelmed by the stream of visitors - so much so that the consultant himself put a 'No Visitors' sign on her door after a few days
She just wanted her dad and me, she said, although of course DPIL and GMIL were allowed.

Her sister-in-law said she would not put up with the same and only allowed her DM to stay.

Thanks ladies, you have all been very helpful.
I don't know myself where the 4th trimester originated, but I will take all your good advice and update in due course all outcomes !
ethelbags there are male "midwives" now but known I think as accoucheurs ? I am sure I will be corrected if I have it wrong ? I certainly would not have minded one when I was giving birth.
Seems a bit harsh to ban a man from a career choice and a calling to deliver babies.

I used to have a Nigerian neighbour. She had her second baby and much excitement in the family because he was A BOY. She seemed to have about 6 older female family members staying with her (not sure who was who), who were all telling her what she could and could not do re feeding. (that will be bad for your milk! etc) Bless her.
An interesting cultural contrast to the 4th trimester

Am I reading this wrong? My understanding of this was that there should be no uninvited visitors, which I would agree with. The new parents may well wish to invite both sets of grandparents several times.