DiL Probs & I Finally Snapped

Is it possible to see SS and the GC without DIL present, as some have suggested? It doesn't sound as if she wants to see you, anyway. I realize it might be awkward to just try to make plans with SS and kids, leaving DIL out. But maybe you could talk to SS about the idea and see what he can arrange?

You would have to be careful not to badmouth or complain about DIL. That would just backfire. Maybe just say there are tensions between you or she doesn't seem to enjoy your company.

Then again, after what happened, you may be hearing from him that she doesn't want to see you. So that may be your chance to make your suggestion.

Would she be ok with your taking the kids on your own sometimes? She might love to be "free" of them for a few hours. Maybe not. But when things calm down, it might be worth a try. Better for kids and you.

HellsBells, where in this thread or anywhere else are people being unsympathetic? Most posters seem to feel for the OP and have even sympathized with her speaking up. Some are just worried that she may have hurt her standing with SS' family, that's all.

I agree with Luckylegs and will add you have said your opinion, she knows what you think of her. I suspect she has known all along which is why she more than likely turned her back on you. If you don't apologise you risk not seeing any of your GC. Hopefully she has taken on board what you did say though I doubt she will ever change but at least you can be there to make life easier for your GC.

Good luck Supernan

Starstella,your quite right,I only ask because I tread on eggshells myself sometimes.One week I go there and she's lovely,another week,

Yes but it is easy to be saint like through the retrospectoscope. I've seen the sad sight of a child with foetal alcohol syndrome and wouldn't wish it on any family but this surely hasn't happened to op's DIL . Encouragement and support might be the kindest way to go.

When I had my DD roughly 3 years ago, the advice was to cut down smoking and not go cold turkey as the stress and shock to the body is bad for the baby more than the actual smoke. Is this what she is doing?
You're allowed a certain amount of alcohol during pregnancy too, I'm really not sure how much.

I dont agree with any of it btw. I've never smoked or drank when pregnant.

Although I have never been a smoker I did drink when I was pregnant . Nobody suggested you should not. I was never a heavy drinker but would have a glass of wine /cider/beer with a meal. Was on holiday in France when in the early stages (unknown to me) of 1st pregnancy and was drinking rather more than I would at home. Was advised to drink Guiness to improve iron levels!
My mother was a smoker and I guess smoked through pregnancy. It is hard because once the research is out there it seems perverse to push your luck (or your child's luck) by doing something that may harm them.

I do think that the way forward is to focus on doing what you can do to support the children, and the family more generally, and avoid too much focus on your DiL as this feels like it is never going to be a happy relationship.

DDS should read DGS!

You'd think that the smoking message would have been well absorbed by now, but 8.5 years ago, when DiL was in hospital having my last DDS, she reported two women in her ward who were smoking out of the window! They were moved.

The smoking message was getting through by the 70's but not necessarily being believed. I was in hospital the night before I had DS and I was sharing with two girls who were in for observation because their babies were small for dates. They were incensed at being told not to smoke because it was just "Them" trying to stop people enjoying themselves.

A glass of stout was often suggested to breastfeeding mums and I remember an aunt forcing herself to drink one even though she didn't like the taste.
We were never told in the 60s that smoking was harmful and the maternity ward was often hazy with smoke.

I am sure that when I was first pregnant in 1970 - 71, nobody told me not to drink alcohol - not that I wanted to, because I found it nauseated me. However, later in the pregnancy - and while breast feeding - I had the odd half of bitter, keeping my OH company while we absorbed the tobacco fumes in the local pub. The resulting infant is 45 next week and in peak condition!

Your DIL is well aware of the health risks , how could she not be with all the advice and info about . It is more about whether or not you have right to interfere whether it is your GC or not . She possibly is also aware that you dislike her and think she is an unfit Mother , could you not really try to build bridges for the sake of everyone concerned . Compliment her on something even if you don`t mean it , take her some flowers . I have always made a huge effort to get on with my sons GFs and DILs as it makes for a happier life all round , good luck x

A link to the Chief Medical Officer's latest guidelines:
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/489795/summary.pdf

How much is she drinking SuperNan? If it is one glass of wine say, once a month, I wouldn't fret too much. I know it's not good to drink at all during pregnancy but a very occasional glass of wine is not worth falling out over.
Smoking is not good either, but perhaps you could suggest to your step-son that he encourages her to visit the GP for help with stopping smoking and explain that you didn't mean to snap but that you are so worried about the new baby (and the effect of passive smoking on the other children too).

Anything else, like a dirty house, perceived laziness, is between your step-son and her and you may just have to grin and bear it.

It's not easy, Stansgran, but being pregnant and the good of your unborn baby is one heck of an incentive. I smoked my last cigarette while waiting for the result of the test for my first, unexpected, pregnancy. Thirty a day to none. The first thing I was offered when I gave birth was a cup of tea, the second a cigarette. I'm so glad I resisted then. 36 years later, there are still times when I yearn for an after dinner Sobranie Black Russian!

Yes Stansgran , you have a point . Alchohol is much more harmful in pregnancy and can cause foetal abnormalities .
When I was pregnant in the late sixties/ early seventies you could actually smoke in the maternity ward and a lot did .It wasn't known so much about the affects of what the mother did to the unborn baby.
I limited myself to 2 ciggies a day , in the evening , because I felt it wasn`t the right thing to do but I was never told by my antenatal Dr . My babies were all over 8lbs except the last who was underweight and unwell and the only pregnancy I didn`t smoke through . SG you are right smoking is harder than heroin to give up , I have heard this from a drug support worker .

I have never smoked and therefore don't understand the effect it has on people but DH has said to me that it is an addiction worse than heroin. I also know people who have continued to smoke throughout many pregnancies and the children have come to no harm. I know it's not recommended of course but how do people stop just like that? And why meet up outside a pub with a pregnant woman. Why not meet up at the tea shop in the garden centre where there is no alcohol or smoking.?

No Marmark1 my son has not contacted me as yet.But in a couple of months time he probably will.He is extremely stubborn .He believes he can talk me round to anything.Which he could .But I have had enough.He is my youngest son and he wasn't planned.I regarded him as my bonus baby.He used to meet me on a Friday after college to go supermarket shopping.He would pack all the bags and load them in the car.We used to laugh and joke all the time.Those were the days.Since he met his partner he has completely changed.Accusing me of things I haven't done.Calling me a liar.I know his partner has a lot to do with it.But,how could he change so much towards me .He knows me and he knows I am not a liar.I still love him I just don't want anymore of the hatred that seems to come from him.He has kicked once too often and I have thrown in the towel.

And the drinking of course!.

There really isn't a lot you can do unfortunately but I do think you were right to say something.

As the saying goes ' there's nowt so queer as folk'. DiLs can be tricky and it can be difficult at times to keep quiet.

Don't worry too much about your partner, he sounds fairly typical of men. They're for the quiet life. I'm not sure that there's an awful lot you can do about your DiLs behaviour except talk to your SS and your 2 other lovely DiLs. Share your worries with them and maybe between you all you could get het to cut down on her smoking. Try not to worry about the untidiness as that's not going to do anyone any harm, the smoking is a different issue!.

You just snapped, it happens to the best of us, so don't worry about it. I would however, go and see her if you can. Apologise for criticising her, say you stand by your opinion of smoking and drinking whilst pregnant, but should not have snapped the way you did. The reason I say this is because it is because it is so easy to fall out and you don't want an estrangement with your gc and stepson. I doubt you will ever change her behaviour do perhaps a little distance between you might be a good idea. I just know the pain of estrangement and would not wish it on anyone. As for your husband saying you shouldn't say anything, well maybe you shouldn't, but men are good at ignoring most things as they don't like getting involved.

I completely understand your frustrations. I've been in a very similar situation and after many years I have just decided to take a step back, do nothing to involve myself or Be overly concerned as there is nothing you can do. Some people are ignorant and s.....d and there's nothing that will change it. Try to compartmentalise your feelings about your stepson and step daughter in law, just show caring for those who accept it. I have learned very slowly to stop flogging a dead horse. All because I think I'm a nice person and want to help and be involved, but just give up. I feel much better now. Hope you can too.

Times change. My mother used to clean every room in the house every week - not just hoovering but dusting, polishing, cleaning windows and washing down paintwork. I don't. Her standards are obviously not yours but that's down to her and you won't change that. If it bothers you to that extent, you could arrange to see your SS and grandkids somewhere outside their home.
Personally I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke and stale alcohol so I wouldn't have lasted as long as you have. I suspect you aren't the first to tell her about smoking and drinking when pregnant, nor will you be the last. Share your fears with your SS. If she continues, which she probably will, you can do no more. While it's hard to accept, you can't force her to give up smoking and drinking if she doesn't want to. Work out what you can do to support her husband and kids and do it.

SuperNan60 - you have done everything you can. Keep away from this arrogant and foolish woman. It took me years to accept that not everybody has to like me or my opinions, and even longer to realise that I do not have to like or respect everybody.

Cut her out of your life, at least for now. She doesn't want you or your advice. This is what the turning of her back to you means. You have done your very best and to continue will bring you more heartbreak.

You may find a way to continue a relationship with your stepson and grandchildren but their mother/wife is more important to them, however useless or damaging she is.

You have been very brave, a heroine. We should all learn to say what we think.

I think people make too many excuses for other's behaviour. Not everyone who lives like a pig is depressed or overwhelmed. For god's sake she is not living in the third world and having to fetch water/feed goats, she has two children at school and is pregnant, so what? She sounds like a lazy, rude mare. Now having said that, what can you do? Don't apologise to her; you are not sorry, you know you are right ( as we all do) that she shouldnt be smoking and drinking during pregnancy and she must do too, the information is everywhere so she is just choosing to ignore it. So, dont apologise, dont give her more cause to be rude, just carry on as you are, try to avoid her other than in company when she may be forced to be less vile. Try to have your grandchildren to visit , give them a bit of time in a home without smoke. The housekeeping issues are all personal, but smoking and drinking while pregnant is not, it is being imposed on an unborn child with no choices. Ignorant people like your DiL make me angry. Angry on behalf of the unborn child and angry on your behalf that you have to put up with this disgusting, selfish woman.