Unmanagable behaviour in 3 yrs old grandson

Yes. I'm sure we could help you more if you gave us an example of the type of behaviour yous grandson displays and how long the episodes last.

There are so many ways you can deal with this, but you need to make sure you all approach it in the same way, staying calm (that's hard) when he has a meltdown.

Does he have sufficient language to explain how he's feeling when the problems occur? Please tell us a little more.

Chances are he's a perfectly OK very bright little one who is learning to manipulate adults to get all bothered and upset about him, ignore the running round in every decreasing screaming and maddening circles in the garden, best thing for him
Throwing food is such fun when it gets a reaction
I d say much less attention to the 'bad behaviour' and the distraction method that Trisher advised is a good one
The only thing out of your description that would make me keep an eye on things re GP is the sleeping as ADHD does often cause poor sleeping habits but 3 is too young to diagnose
To be honest with you I d be MUCH, MUCH more worried if he was quiet (very good) and withdrawn than this seemingly extreme but fairly normal behaviour he's just showing his spirit

I thought that most 3 year olds behaved in an unimaginably unmanageable way from time to time.
Especially when there is an older sibling involved.

Just glanced at this thread title and had a worrying few minutes pondering this "unimaginable" behaviour! Note to self : must read more slowly!

DGD was much worse at 3 than at 2 and can still have the occasional 'meltdown'.
DD used to react to Coca Cola (banned in our house, but I always knew when she had drunk some at a friend's house!)

I also wondered if the 6 year old is aggravating him on the quiet? Older siblings can annoy younger ones then act very innocently when the younger one reacts.
The younger one may not have the means yet of articulating his frustrations and your DD needs to remain calm and consistent when dealing with him.

Good luck!

Oh ladies I am overwhelmed with your comments and thank you all so much for your support and kind suggestions.
I will take on board the food additive issue and change my menu for him to see if that helps. I will also talk to my daughter about this. We are very close and can be frank with each other and I would never let my GS's behaviour forge a wedge between us. Outside help may be the next step to take but that has to come from my daughter. I feel so much better after our discussions in this forum and much to think about and try.
Thank you all so much XXX

Yes I agree with the food issue. In the 70's we were told not to give our kids anything with tartrazine in - ie orange squash. Then a few years later we found out that it was things with red colours that our boy was allergic to. Blackcurrant juice etc. Hence his hyperactivity.
Our grandson aged two and a half days No to anything you say or ask so the best thing is not to ask - just do it.

My advice would to be to keep a record of sleep patterns, triggers, and diet. If nothing else, you will have something to take to the Health Visitor or GP so they can see if he needs assessing. My sister's child is on the AS and found it terribly difficult when her beautiful boy had meltdowns. I think one of the worst things she felt, apart from worrying about her boy, was other people being judgemental when she was doing her absolute best.

I have been thinking about this again and hope a few more words will help. Firstly I suspect your GS is very bright. I think some of his behaviour shows that he using bad behaviour to get attention and that this is paying off. I would be speaking to the nursery about using something other than timeout. Strictly speaking timeout means a child is left alone and wanting to return to the group means they behave better. Your GS has his key worker sitting with him, so he is effectively getting 1to 1 attention for misbehaving, even if she isn't interacting with him she is still 'his' for that time.
Have you tried the "There's a pig flying by" technique. You reprimand quietly but firmly. "Use your knife and fork please" then whilst he is still thinking about what action he will do next you make some completely unconnected remark to distract him. Can be anything from asking what's for pudding to asking him about a picture he did at nursery. It's just distraction and is there to break the cycle he has got into. It sometimes works. I've worked with kids with bad behaviour and different kids need different approaches.

This is one of those posts where I have to go away and think about it and what I say. In that time you've posted more information and your grandson's behaviour sounds extreme and at the point where some professional outside advice and support sounds advisable.
You may be trying it already, but monitoring his food and sugar intake is good advice. I could not believe my grandsons behaviour when I indulged him with sweets on a visit to the cinema. He too had and has exhausting and terrible temper meltdowns around difficult family issues - marriage breakdown - Mum meeting someone else. All focused on his mother. I've noticed that a second adult ready to take over as first adult is at the end of endurance, but who reinforces what's expected, can help. Not always possible - I know.
I so hope you find some support. My grandson's behaviour has improved over time and ability to articulate what's angering him. He now asks for relaxation music to go on and it soothes him at night. Might be worth trying worth trying as a quiet background.
My heart goes out to you and your family as you cope with this. Thank goodness your daughter has you with her.

After ruling out any conditions such as ADHD and Autism etc,
if you have ever watched some of these "call in a Wonder Nanny" type programs, you can see how quite appallingly difficult behaviour can often be improved quite dramatically.

This is often achieved by a trained person giving parents the right advice and support for them to change the way they are dealing with their childs "normal" behaviour.
To contact the Health Visitor might be a good start.

Thank you Anya ((hugs))

I have to admit autism was my first thought. The meltdown at the table sounds very much like sensory overload. It would be helpful to get this investigated now because it seems to take such a long time to get help if it is needed.

The OP asked for advice and was pleased at the responses. I'm sure she'll look at these and consider whether any match her GS's issues.

Swanny it only shows lack of understanding when people rush to blame the parents. Try not to get upset and sending you (((hugs))) too.

Foxie I missed your post earlier today. which has given me the opportunity not to respond angrily. My DGS's 'unmanageable behaviour' is NOT a result of 'inept parenting' by parents who are 'too lazy or misguided ...' If only it were that simple

As for 'Grandparent can and often do provide an important role and they to have the knowledge and wisdom when to say NO and when to give that big loving hug', with respect that is balderdash. A hug makes DGS worse as he is extremely sensitive to touch. I yearn for his huggles (his beautiful word) at times and appreciate them all the more when he instigates one.

I have been told by lots of relatives that I had dreadful temper tantrums as a toddler when I couldn't get my own way. It seems I was badly spoilt by my loving and beloved grandfather, a Durham miner, who was my surrogate father during the war when Dad was away.

My mother told me that I threw myself to the floor in Woolworths when I was three and screamed and kicked her. She, finally having had enough, walked off and out of the door, leaving me alone. She was actually waiting just outside the door and was watching me. I stopped screaming, terrified to have been left alone, then ran out into her arms. I am told I never had another tantrum. True story but probably doesn't help much.

There is a lot of long distance diagnosis going on on this thread which might be a bit alarming for the OP. I would suggest that this is premature and inappropriate and that this is a behaviour problem in the normal range for a 3 year old. The child is only 3 and his mother is exhausted due to disturbed sleep. He has the upper hand and is making the most of it, in the way that 2-3 year olds with lots of energy and a strong will to rule the universe will tend to do given a bit of encouragement.
Most grandparents are not in a position to intervene, either to suggest a different way of managing his behaviour, or to suggest that the child should be assessed.

Is his speech and language delayed (including his understanding)? Children who can't express themselves verbally will of course get furious or lash out.

And orange juice, when my GD was little she was nearly climbing the walls. Please whatever the problem is don't lose your temper and smack him.its not the answer you just have to be firm.Could find out what the problem is by talking to him when he has a wobbly and calmed down

You mention that he has an older brother who gets into trouble because of the behaviour of the little one. This is very familiar to me. My youngest GS who, as I mentioned up-thread as having been monstrous, still gets his older brother into trouble because junior irritates him to the point that he retaliates and is then seen as a trouble-maker when he probably wanted to get on with his own pursuits peacefully. In our case, the older one is very good indeed at building Lego models and young brother will do almost anything to break his concentration - and his models. Have you thought of extreme sibling rivalry as being at the bottom of the younger child's behaviour?

Please try the food route before you involve the 'professionals'. My son was hyperactive and drove us to the end of our tether when he was little - we didn't know about hyperactivity in those days. In desperation we joined the hyperactive child society, took him off all foods/medicines/drinks containing E numbers and he was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT child. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. He stopped destroying things and was loving and kind. I felt terribly guilty then about how I had shouted at him and treated him previously. He was still a bit of handful! but then do we want our children to grow up and totally conform? I have recently written a poem about some of the terrible things he used to do. He laughed!

He sounds very bright. Perhaps he needs to be tested for that, then his parents need to be advised on best strategies going forward.
He could actually be super bored.

Yes, like swanny my oldest GS used to have horrendous meltdowns like this and he has been diagnosed as ASD. Why would you be surprised that it could be ASD Jess

It can be hard for these children to understand their world, especially at only 3 years of age and once into meltdown they frighten themselves and the situation escalates.

At the very least get him seen by a GP to either rule it out or get him an early diagnosis.

I'd be surprised if the child had a problem like autism - it sounds like a behaviour management problem. The behaviour you describe at the table is testing the adult responses - which was to give him lots of attention, try to persuade him to eat etc. Huge reward for the bad behaviour. So why wouldn't he keep acting up?
Taking his food away and ignoring him completely would be the kind of adult behaviour that would discourage this behaviour.
However parents need help to change the way they are behaving and I like MagicWand's suggestion.

My relationship with my son is ruined because of his sons horrendous behaviour. My house my rules. Although I never shouted at my grandson. I would tell him not to do things and why. It ended in my son accusing me of bullying him. He is totally out of control. No discipline from his parents until he puts a cushion over his younger brothers face as he could suffocate him. But still he carries on. Last time they came he was doing something that was ruining something I had just bought. I thought how should I deal with it. So I asked his mother to tell him to stop. She said if it breaks it breaks. I can't afford to replace things. I said could I tell him. She said yes. They never invite us to them unless they want my oh to help with DIY. Now I actually I pleased to not see them so much. I am the evil one in their eyes but my OH doesn't want them here and used to hide when they visit. So Florence I think I should have suggested going out together on neutral ground and not said anything.