Calling introvert grans

I wonder if this thread applies to so many of us as we are quietly on the Internet. Typical introverts.

Thank you to the OP - this thread has been very therapeutic, for those engaging and others like myself who are just reading.

I sincerely hope this goes nowhere near the media/social media as this is GN at its best

I am absolutely amazed that so many of us have had similar experiences with our Mums with praise and physical affection sadly missing. I cannot do a thing right in my Mums eyes, and everyone notices so I know it’s true. She is the most bossy opinionated person I have ever known and when young we were browbeaten to comply, so was my Dad ! I learned over the years to be assertive, and rose thro the ranks in my job and had 100 staff under me, but still she thought she had the right to tell me how to live my life. So I used my assertiveness training on her ! But in her eyes I was being stroppy because altho in my 60’s I should still do as I am told evidently. We are chalk/cheese, and whereas I can accept the differences, she can’t, because I am in the wrong, as always ! Last week she actually said that as she was my mother, she knows me better than anyone. My response was that she dosnt know me at all because she has never ever listened to anything that I have to say. Her friend agreed with me and for once Mum was silent. I have always let my 3 kids fly free, to be the people they want to be and I have a wonderful closeness with them all, and am showered with love and affection, with the grandkids too, it’s bliss. And anything Mum says goes in one ear and out the other, I like me even if she dosnt !!

I’m an introvert and was brought up in a very undemonstrative home. I find it difficult to show affection but am sure my children know how much I love them. None of them are very demonstrative either. I find it easier to show love to my grandchildren. But I’m not critical and do loads for them in other ways,

pamaga I dont think it was child abuse I totally agree with Jane10 about it being related to the upbringing they had.It was different times.people behaved differently,there wasn't the "child worship" that happens nowadays when women declare they are their childs best friend and ACT as if they are.Thats frankly ridiculous ,a parent shouldn't try to be a best friend they should be able to set boundaries etc.The mothers spoken of here grew up in a very different climate ,when children should be seen and not heard ,when they obeyed without question what their elders said ,even when many were adults themselves.When fathers were at war so mothers had to be both parents and often were stricter as a result.By being harsh and disiplinarian they thought they were donig the best they could for their children and we shouldn't condemn them for their ways .It was all they knew .I'm also a person who looks at the reasons for behaviour rather than judge and I think some of you are being a wee bit unfair .You know the saying about walking miles in someone elses shoes? That might apply to you and your mum

Exactly, Pamaga abusing a child is never excusable, but having been abused themselves is an explanation - it is not that they are inherently cruel. If their legs were crippled because of past damage, they would not be able to walk, and if their ability to nurture is damaged by a past lack of nurture, it can affect their treatment of their own children. Some physical damage can be healed by pyhysiotherapy, and some emotional damage can be healed by the emotional equivalent of physiotherapy, or by subsequent events and relationships, but not every case.

I’m saddened by many of the life stories on this thread which reveal varying degrees of what amounts to child abuse. That abuse has clearly scarred the lives of many of those of you who were the victims, and whilst I rejoice in the fact that some have clearly overcome their injury, others still appear to be struggling with unresolved feelings of personal guilt. I say to that latter group, it was never your fault, and you deserved so much better. I also say to those who are focusing on the “mental health” issues of the abusive parent, such issues may perhaps explain their behaviour, but should never ever be deployed as a means of somehow excusing it. Child abuse is wrong at every level.

I was very moved by belinda49. Thank you for sharing that. I had a very complex relationship with my mum. Many of your stories have rung bells and if I got frustrated and angry with her I would then feel so remorseful. And my cousins and everyone outside the family thought she walked on water.....I know she loved me but she was very controlling and not being of the generation that had the vocabulary for such feelings didn't help. But in her last year I got her moved near me to a nursing home she was 94, and every night I visited her she looked miserable and I tried everything I could think of to make her life richer and when I said what do you want? She said that I didn't want to know ... she wanted to die. Luckily the morning that she died she put my hand on her cheek and said 'you are very kind' which was VERY KIND of her! Phew I didn't expect that. She too was a Leo and a 'know it all' but I knew deep down it was because she lacked the deeper self confidence she should have had. I remember when I got a highly competed for appointment that I really wanted she said I 'o well its a job'. And she didn't think it was any good till her 'superior' friend told her it was!!
She had a strange snobbishness.
But all in all she did the best job she could and I agree with jane10 on that. But not being able to share my frustration about her with others was difficult. So thank gn you for that. The other thing she used to do is show off about me to others, (embarrassing) and yet never praise me directly. Most odd. Though we do learn a lot from others' mistakes !!!

loopylou - I agree with you when you say "She had a lousy childhood but that doesn't and didn't give her the right to make me an angst-ridden child and adult."

Nothing justifies a mother making her child fear abandonment, telling her child there is something wrong with them simply because they disagree with her, lying to my father about things I never said to her, criticising me throughout adulthood ...the list goes on. I don't care about the reasons for her behaviour.

Whilst I know she was only doing her best and that she couldn't help herself, all she achieved was to make me very unhappy and self-critical and to make herself repellent not just to me but to my DH and DSs who witnessed her behaviour.

I look forward to a time when my anger will subside.

What Jane10 is saying (and she has worked in mental health professionally) is "Give the mother a break. She was probably a victim, so was her mother, and so on and so on."

Just make sure you don't pass on the infection!

The ultimate answer to this is would be that only those who had a relaxed and happy relationship with their parents and is ready to continue that with their children should be allowed a licence to breed.

Anyone who had a bad time as a child and as a result is likely to find it difficult to bond with a child and treat them as psychiatrists recommend that they be treated (subject of course to current theories on childcare and nurturing - these change frequently) would be refused a licence. Those breaking the law would have the child taken from them and raised by approved adoptive or foster parents, and the miscreants spayed or neutered so that they couldn't offend again.

Outrage alert!!! - I am not actually recommending that ! But look at the problem without the filter of hurt and sentiment, and it is clear that you only get rid of an inherited damage by breaking the cycle, and the person suffering from the damage is mostly not in a position to heal themselves.

I am very 'high' on the introvert scale. Have done Myers Briggs which proved it. Can't stand being in a crowd of people for too long, need my space, need retreat time, useless in discussions and group work as I don't say anything. No probs getting on with family...we are all different. Am good listener and good one to one.

I agree with Elegran completely - introverts are not incapable of having feeling or indeed showing it but the way in which it is demonstrated is likely to differ from the gushing kisses on both cheeks that seem to have become de rigeur these days with people who are almost strangers. Introverts are loving and caring, extroverts are loving and caring - your mother falls into neither category. And I also agree with Jane10 that she will be a product of her own upbringing. Personally I can't understand how any grandma can have no interest in her grandchildren. Maybe she is just a very self-absorbed and selfish person, maybe she has some really deep self-esteem issues. One thing's for certain, if you feel so concerned you need to discuss it with her but not via email. It should be done face to face. Email can exacerbate things as once your sense of irritation is on paper (screen) it can't be retracted. You need a dialogue to get to the root of this. On the other hand - a three week adventure holiday?? Your mother clearly does have a concern for her grandchildren otherwise she wouldn't have raised this. In my working life I was frequently away from home on short trips abroad leaving my hubby to take care of my teenage daughter. I missed her dreadfully, and she me. I would never have chosen to make those trips, and certainly never have dreamed of choosing to leave her for three weeks while I went on an adventure challenge, so maybe you need to recognise that your own extroversion is right at the end of the spectrum - maybe that's too much for your mum to cope with.

Jane 10.
How true.' Fairly typical of her own upbringing'
I can identify my life where my mother was concerned to your comment.
Her words to me 'I am so sorry' came out of the blue when later in life she was staying with me after the loss of my aunt her sister.
She then related her childhood and the early days of her marriage as if wanting to eradicate the past, and realising she had not been the mother to me she should have been.
If we could only chose our relatives like we can chose our friends.

No simplistic answers to this situation ethelwulf and I find it 'bizarre' to even think so. We must agree to differ.

This is so interesting as so many of you similar childhoods to mine. I don't think we realise the impact this has on us. It was one of my SiLs who really drew my attention to how my mother treated me and I am now on a very slow road to 'recovery'. I have come to understand much more by reading the books of Peg Streep which I would recommend to anybody who has had a 'mean mother'.

Sorry, Jane 10, but we ain't on the same planet. Your bizarre claim that attempting to understand why such Mothers abuse their children is " more potentially useful and interesting to consider than ruminating on how they made a child feel" simply makes my blood run cold. The child's well-being must come first... no ifs, no buts, no pathetic excuses. Unconditional love is every child's birthright... and that's my last word on the subject. Goodbye.

Have you asked her what her relationship w her own mother was - might be illuminating. My own mother was...won't go there. It has made me fairly incapable of showing affection or expressing an opinion re what I want for myself.

Its always important to consider why a person may be behaving in a certain way. Not to do this is to rule out so many possibilities. It sounds like there have been a lot of 'distant', aloof mothers around. There always have been. The reasons for this are more potentially useful and interesting to consider than ruminating on how they made a child feel.
My mother was an odd woman but I know enough about her background, personality and genetics to understand why she was the way she was. Its OK. She was the loser. I and my children are fine.
There's much more to human relationships than just blaming and trying to fit labels to people ethelwulf.

My goodness, all your comments have been like a breath of fresh air to me. I was the middle one of 3 girls and apparently much like my Father in character. My Mother was well educated, very unfulfilled and unhappily married, feeling she had married beneath her, and took it out on me. She was fine with my sisters and outsiders loved her. She never kissed or hugged me (or my Father) and was very critical of the way I looked and dressed, destroying my confidence in my teenage years. I have to admit that I felt I would never 'be myself' while she was alive. My poor Father was very fond of me but it wasn't his love I craved. I feel I was absolutely pathetic in the ways I constantly tried to please her, all to no avail. In her later years when my sisters were too busy to bother much with her I had her move closer to us so that I could visit every other day and try to keep her active and stimulated. When she was 98 she finally told me how I had 'turned out well' and that it was a surprise to her and she thought it must be to me too! Luckily 50 years ago I married a very affectionate, caring man (partially to escape home life) and have daughters and grandchildren, but I have never been happy or counted my blessings as it was always only my Mother's love and approval I craved. At age 101 she passed away with my arms around her and I finally felt free. I loved her so much no matter how much she hurt me.
I have never been able to discuss this with my sisters as my Mother behaved so differently to them and they would think I was delusional. It has been very therapeutic to write this. Thank you Gransnet forum.
P.S. My Mother was a LEO

You've both been honest enough to put your cards on the table and surely that is healthy in itself, rather than continue to allow resentments to get worse. You may have spent a long time trying to please each other and not have succeeded but perhaps you can move on from this. Many of us are disappointed in our families, aren't we? My dad was an awful bully and this has had repercussions for all his children for decades. We regretted not standing up to him and it's too late now, at least you've begun a discussion.

I've spent 63 years trying to please my mother and it's pretty obvious I'm never going to succeed because I will never be the perfect daughter she wanted.
It's incredibly sad and hard, especially when my twin sisters can do nothing wrong, however in order to preserve my sanity I have slightly distanced myself from her and my dad. Yes, it gives her more ammunition but I try not to care.
She had a lousy childhood but that doesn't and didn't give her the right to make me an angst-ridden child and adult. Finally I am trying to be a person in my own right, it's hard and probably too late for me to be really happy with myself and to stop putting on an act to others.

Whilst it is is nice to be approved of, it isn't something you 'need' as an adult from your parent any more than you need them telling you off, telling you what to do or think. Think how much your mother is missing out on by being her. You, on the other hand, have the opportunity to live your life being happy in your relationships with your children and to show them that Mum is a person who lives life to the full and trusts their father to do just as good a job as her. What a great role model.
Don't try changing someone who has no inclination to change, just thank your lucky stars you got lucky with your life.

Of course you should go on your trip and when you come back determine not to put up with your mother's behaviour.

I am an introvert. I'm not naturally chatty and find large gatherings difficult but I am deeply and lovingly part of my children and grandchildren's lives. Being an introvert does not make anyone behave like your mother.

My mother behaved much like yours though not so extreme but we decided something much deeper made her behave as she did. Perhaps her father dying at a young age but my SIL had that experience and is the most loving mother and grandmother. Maybe that she lost a newborn and then my father died young but she led my father a merry dance from the word go so I don't think these events did more than exacerbate her behaviour. She was fine with the grandchildren when they were babies but as they grew up her fondness for bursting their bubbles affected how they felt. Unfavourable comments about what they wore for instance, My daughter nailed it when she concluded as a teenager that Grandma was a narcissist who complained bitterly that old friends and family did not phone her but saw no reason why she should phone them and if they did visit had to put up with sarcastic comments about how rarely she saw them.
People are usually a lot more complicated than introvert or extrovert.

Enjoy your adventure and don't feel guilty for a second. We have only one life.

This is like reading about my life no affection no love no praise always negatives.I ended the relationship about 25 years ago after yet another argument.I have 4 sons and not one of them received either a birthday card or Christmas card that is what she is like.I bumped into her this summer she didn't recognise me when she realised who I was she put her arms round me and said how happy she was to see me.We chatted a few minutes and then she said I wasn't going to speak to you until you apologised to me.For what?I just thought you stupid woman after 25 years you jump in with both feet.I just threw my aems in the air and said we all know that is never going to happen.She looked quite stunned I was her whipping post for so long she didn't expect it.She has tried to contact me again but I want none of it,OP just think of all the positive things you have achieved and let the rest go.xx

I'll leave it to others to say whether the behaviour you are describing in your mother can be called introverted.

To me it sounds like one of the strategies that our mothers' generation used to maintain control of us their children even after we had grown up.

My mother went the opposite way to work, demonstrating love and kindness extravagantly all the time, but make no mistake about it, we were only her good and dear children when we did exactly what she wanted.

So finally, like you, my DS and I had to tell her where she got off, otherwise we would have had no life of our own.