Irish Abortion Laws

I fully understood the cheering and banner waving given what Irish women had been subject to over over the years. They worked hard for their victory and endured much personal vilification in achieving that aim. When you think of the powerful forces that had been ranged against them for decades, I still find it amazing that they won and so decisively.

For all the reasons you have given Elegran there must be that choice for women. Of course there must. The only thing I did find a little unsettling was the wild cheering and flag waving that greeted the ruling. Somehow, given the nature of what is to be allowed now within the law, excitement and jubilation didn't seem to be the right reaction. Abortion must surely be a source of great unhappiness and turbulence in the life of any woman, for whatever reason, even if it is accompanied by great relief.

I’m pro choice and pro life. The difference is in how life is defined.

Serkeen You say ^"How awful must it be for the Doctors that perform abortion because after all they spend 7/9 years of their precious lives learning how to SAVE people lives^" but how awful the woman who has that abortion must feel, too. She has feelings too, and if she discovers :-

that the consequence of her husband's/partner's repeated insistence on sex without waiting to take precautions results in repeated pregnancies, and telling him that contraception is a good thing falls on deaf ears.

that after experiencing the hell of a violent rape she is carrying the child of her attacker, and for the rest of her life she will see his face in the face of that child.

that after being sexually abused by a family member she is carrying an incestuously conceived child.

that an experiment in "you show me and I'll show you" means she is carrying another child while she is still a child herself.

that it is not true that you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up.

that her plans for education, a decent job and an independent and fulfilling life have gone down the drain because she followed her instincts one night.

that a planned and wanted child will die at or near birth and break her heart.

that her child will face a life of pain, disability, disfigurement, and misery.

that to look after that child adequately she will have to neglect her existing children.

If YOU discovered one or several of these things. you would not be feeling too gung-ho either. If the medical profession turned you away, then can you really say with hand on heart that you would not be tempted to seek help from someone who "knew what to do" ?

As you've mentioned drugs, Annep, maybe you'd like to learn about how Portugal has dealt with its illegal drug problem by decriminalising them.

www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

I agree Anep ,we dont need to debate it,its been sorted for the thousands of women who were in need of terminations in Ireland .Giiving THEM the control of their own bodies their government thought they shouldn't have.Now NI needs to follow suit

I am prolife but I understand in certain circumstances the best decision is to end the baby's life. But not because its inconvenient. And I do feel that to use the excuse of they will do it anyway is silly. Thats like saying people will use drugs anyway so lets legalise them. But I do agree even if people agree with the law change the jubilation was in poor taste. The other thing that annoys he is how so many blame it on religious zealots. Many people who aren't religious at all are prolife. I think the law in N Ireland needs expanded a bit to include rape incest and ffa and maybe other special circumstances but not generally available.
People are never going to agree though. We might as well stop debating.

Quite so, Maryeliza. I saw some stats for abortions recently and the majority in the U.K. take place in women from the lower socioeconomic groups. I'm guessing they may well be the ones who find it harder to access and use contraception, too.

There always has been and always will be abortion regardless what the law says.The main difference is that it is the poor who die when it’s not legal

Temporarily giving up the so I’ll settle for a

Serkeen, I'm upset that you can be so callous towards your fellow women.

Pregnancy isn't always avoidable, at least not in the world I live in.

This thread is definitely going to be a positive and respectful experience for everyone involved

Serkeen you have made two contradictory comments.
What exactly is your point?
It is not just about “unwanted” pregnancies, it is very often about the quality of life for the child.
And to talk about giving an unborn child a voice is sentimental nonsense.
Do we allow minors to get married, buy tobacco, drugs alcohol, or fight etc?
Do we allow pre school children to decide whether they go to school or not?
Do we allow babies and toddlers to decide whether they should be immunised against all the childhood diseases which have been fatal for children in the past?
Of course not.

Wanting to use your hands to kill another person is not the same at all. It would be using hands to do something to someone else. That's a really bizarre comparison, tbh.

Do you think it's a good thing that women the world over die for lack of safe abortion, Serkeen? Would you like back street abortions taking place again in the U.K.? Because that's the reality, not some cloud-cuckooland where all babies are loved and wanted.

I find it hard to comprehend that a law has been passed and that it is permitted in a civilised country to take a life Lets tell it like it is.

I am now lost for words and so upset that I am unable to continue this conversation as to read the opinions of callus people that are happy to allow people to take a life and think it acceptable I will say it again PREGNANCY IS AVOIDABLE so stop being irresponsible and then think oh its ok we can just terminate

Pregnancies occur in all sorts of circumstances. Women don't know they are pregnant. Contraception fails. Rapes take place. Sexual abuse takes place. Unborn babies can have unsurviveable congenital conditions.

Who am I to judge those women and tell them what to do?

"they are forbidden to do to their bodies what they wish to do"

WHY is that a bad thing! What they want to do to with their bodies is not a good thing ..its a bit like telling any other person that wants to take a life that it is bad that they are not allowed to use their hands how they wish to use them even if it entails using them to stab someone Utter utter nonsense

This is one of Lady Hales paragraphs from the Supreme Court Judgement re the situation in NI handed down last week.

I truly believe that in the UK people have a higher regards for animals over children

if this were an animal that were to loose its life how do you think the UK would be reacting?

Its about giving an Un born child a voice. Do you believe that just because a women houses the growth of a baby that she has the right to end its life?

Do you have no regards what so ever for the Un born child

Is pregnancy not avoidable ? If so why is it not avoided instead of being reckless not worrying about the consequences

Most abortions are not performed by doctors. Of the ones that are, no doctor or nurse has to take part in the procedure if they do not want to. But the main overall point is about a woman’s right to choose, to have bodily autonomy - her body, her choice.

My post, Maw? No, not at all! Just a general comment on the thread.

No it isnt, Serkeen. I can't think of any other situation where one person gets to police another person's body. Why do you want to control what other woman do?

SueDonim that's like saying its none of my business that bad stuff happens in the world it is ludicrous

MawBroon To say that the un born childs vote that would be is irrelevant is exactly what is wrong with abortion WHY is it irrelevant

As for your experience I am so sorry that you had to go through that and ofcourse I did not mean it to apply n such circumstances

Is this addressed to me?