Irish Abortion Laws

Suedonim very long article. will finish later. interesting. thanks.

Well said Blondie, you have written my thoughts on this matter. I have been reading this thread and I cringe every time someone posts about women having abortions because having a baby would be ‘inconvenient ‘. I am so thankful that I have never been in the position of having to consider an abortion and I would never criticise a woman who makes that choice. Congratulations to all those lucky posters who have never had to consider it.

I think very very few people are "pro abortion" - but a great many are "pro-choice"! Yes, many pregnancies can be avoided through the use of birth control - but even the most effective forms of birth control do not prevent pregnancy 100% of the time. Women may choose to end a pregnancy for all manner of reasons - who am I, or you, or anyone else for that matter, to say what they should do with their own bodies. It is a decision which is rarely taken lightly - and far better that a women who finds herself in that situation should be able to have a safe and legal abortion than resort to other means.

Serkeen if you were really unaware of the situation around abortion before the sixties act can I suggest you watch the excellent film Vera Drake directed by Mike Leigh. It is harrowing, but shows what went on. Abortions then could be bought from Harley Street doctors if you were rich enough. The poor of course depended on back-street abortionists.
Women always have and always will have abortions, making it safe and legal for them should be celebrated. Mourn the unborn child by all means, but don't think that will solve the problem. And far better a foetus is lost than a family lose their mother.

Some very sad stories here. I do sympathise with you all. I do feel that society must share the responsibility. More education and much more help is urgently needed.

I totally agree with you Farmor15.I could not have put it better myself.I cringe when I hear the stories of couples having to travel to England when they should be at home with their families. It was a very enlightening campaign and was long overdue.

Eglantine - it’s situations like the one you described, where a woman has a wanted pregnancy, but is then diagnosed with cancer, that made me vote “yes” in the recent referendum in Ireland. Many doctors also called for a change in the law because they felt it limited their ability to treat pregnant women.

Many people in Ireland felt a bit uncomfortable about the celebrations at the result of the referendum, even though they supported a change. There were a lots of discussions in the media beforehand and the issue was taken very seriously.

It is indeed an age old problem. Abortion has always existed in some form and even with modern advances there is no form of contraception that is 100% effective.

The "baby crying" is rather strong emotional blackmail. 90% of UK terminations occur in the first trimester - many before the baby even has a heartbeat at 6 weeks and certainly before fully functional lungs. Up to 20% of known pregnancies miscarries naturally in the first trimester.

The issue of abortion is just so emotional and on one hand I think it is definitely right that woman have the choice but on the other hand I think it can be abused.
We had fertility treatment to get pregnant deliberately and our baby turned out to have a condition which would have meant it would have had a very sickly life, obviously blighted and unlikely to make old bones. With much heartache we went through with an abortion which nearly killed me but had I continued with the pregnancy, I would have definitely died so it is difficult to say it was a mistake although for years after, my conscience bothered me. We didn't make the decision lightly but considered the quality of life the unborn child would have, the effect of it's many problems would have on our 5 existing children and what would happen to our little girl if anything happened to us. At no time did I think that I couldn't cope if we carried on but I know my husband wasn't so sure but was willing to try if I wanted to continue with the pregnancy.
On the other hand, I know people who use the morning after pill and abortion as a form of contraception and that is just repugnant to me but if they carried on with a pregnancy it would be a blighted life for the child and I think that is worse.

Will Serkeen think about the situation I described if I keep posting do you think? Even if she said the cries of two little boys count as nothing compared to the cry of an unborn baby.

A bit of a volte face Serkeen and baffling in the light of your posts of 18.07 and 18.12
Yes, I think some posts are being ignored eglantine but congratulations to suedonim who seems to have succeeded where others clearly failed.

Thank you, Serkeen. In an ideal world there would be no need for abortion but sadly we don't live in an ideal world. We are all human beings with faults and foibles and that's what such laws try to take into account.

I think I am being ignored ?

Yes SueDonim do want other peoples opinion and it was your opinion and what you said that made me realise that the Yes vote might have been for the best because as you so rightly pointed out if it were not legal women would do it anyway and risk their life and no one wants that so thank you for opening my eyes to that.

Its a horrid old subject but I have learnt something by bringing it up.

Gasp away serkeen I could counter by saying that your emotional claptrap left me similarly aghast that anybody could be so unaware of reality.
Your argument contains no logic whatsoever and to suggest that people in the U.K. care more about animals than children is the sort of unfounded generalisation one might expect in the Sun on a bad day.
Why on earth start a thread with a totally closed mind and unfounded prejudices?

I notice you didn’t comment on my post Serkeen. And I did specifically ask for your thoughts.

As Paddyann says, Serkeen, unborn babies can't cry. That's just emotional blackmail you're using in order to try and make women feel guilty.

I don't know why you started this thread, if you didn't want people's honest opinions. I also cannot believe you were unaware that pre-1967 women died in the UK at the hands of illegal abortionists. That's what would happen again if it were made illegal once more. Abortions would still take place, they'd just be unmonitored and unregulated.

Anniebach it isn't that easy to get an abortion. You need to find somewhere that offers the service to start with, you need two doctors to sign off and you have to take tablets on two separate occasions and you may well start bleeding and cramping in public while on your way home.

That really doesn't sound like a bundle of laughs to me.

Serkeen,that sort of emotional claptrap will just annoy folk...UNBORN babies dont cry...certainly not at the stage when most abortions take place .Some women get pregnant despite using contraceptives ...me ...twice .I went through with them because I was happily married BUT lost both babies ,one at 11 weeks and one at 34 weeks .Nobody LIKES or WANTS abortion ..but we do know that it is necessary for a lot of women.
closed minds.......kettle and pot there Serkeen

ilovecheese you donot want women to be punished for having sex but your ok with an unborn child loosing its life due to two wally's having un protected sex.

it is all about being RESPONSABLE it is not ok to have sex without being willing to take the consequences which are bloody huge for an un born child.

I am done now because there are too many closed minds that are not willing to hear the CRYS of un born babies

After reading all the posts I have to say that mawbroons opinions on the subject leave me gasping in shock and horror

Suedonim I do not believe it is a bizarre comparison at all at the end of the day it is taking of a life..

However Pseudonym you did say something that made me realise that maybe the best thing happened with the yes vote and that's when you said that if it were not legal it would go on anyways but illegally and dangerously so that did make me think that these women were going to do it anyway but at risk to their life and no one wants that so I thank you for enlightening me which is why I started this post in the first place

I say thank you for those of you that were not afraid to say that you do not agree with abortion

Ilovecheese, there is no connection between an unwanted pregnancy and complications at birth.

There were no complications in pregnancy, there were complications during birth. You cannot say there is no connection between having to go through with an unwanted pregnancy and giving birth. Of course there is a connection. No woman should have to face that risk unwillingly.

Another huge problem is ordering medication online to assist abortions. With no medical advice this pills have caused women to die. The point of the yes campaign was your body your life..the individual gets a choice. Ireland has a bad reputation for looking after its women. Catch up about the recent cervicial cancer scandal.

Ilovecheese, sorry your argument is weak, rubbish to say pro lifers want to punish women for having sex. And the fear of losing your daughter must have been horrific for you, there is no connection between complications in pregnancy and unwanted pregnancies

Sue, you said perhaps the cause of troubled children in need of adoption was perhaps unwanted pregnancies It can’t be when abortion is so readily available .