STOP CLAPPING!

trisher I actually think it is part of the same thing. If we do not like a statue of Colston in Bristol because of his trade and we think Kipling was a racist does it stop us appreciating the positives of their lives? Prosperity for a town, language and stories etc. If we , as a nation agree it is 'a good thing' to pull down statues of dictators in Iraq surely we should apply similar standards at home?

Irradicate history?

I don't think pulling down the statue was necessarily a good thing PECS anymore than I think ISIS destroying historical sites was a good thing. Unfortunately war enables and promotes destruction on all sides. But I can see that some would object to the prominent display of a statue that commemmorated a slaver. I think that adding a plaque giving accurate information is probably the best solution. I think I have already said that wider analysis and discussion about Kipling is more appropriate than a wall poem.

Are students so thick today that they need ‘IF’ to be explained to them?!
The answer of course is no ( for the most part anyway) it was simply political correctness about Kipling himself, that his poem was taken off the wall.
It’s a superb poem for anyone to try and aspire to, especially when younger.
The wrapping up in cotton wool, making children of grown young men and women, ‘safe spaces’ and general victimhood is disturbing.The students are old enough to drink themselves stupid, sit around taking drugs and tumble in and out of bed together, but may become offended or tearful at the least thing outside of that it seems.

lemon if you bother to read the thread you will find many posts from people who think the poem needs proper discussion. If you know anything about human perception and the way we process information displayed in the street you will know that basically our brain assimilates and retains things that are of interest and information which fits our lives. So it isn't anything to do with "thick" students, just the way our brains work. It may have been political correctness which initiated the removal of the poem but whatever perspective you look at this from, aesthetic, critical or political it was the right decision.

Perhaps in your opinion trisher it was, others on here would disagree, as their posts tell you.I have read the thread in it’s entirety.

The students may prefer a short piece by Spike Milligan in that case ( fits in with their fast paced lives)

‘A thousand hairy savages sitting down to lunch,
Gobble gobble gobble, munch munch munch?’

Wait! Can’t write about savages, so maybe this ( also by Spike)
‘I eat my peas with honey, I’ve done it all my life,
It makes the peas taste funny but it keeps them on the knife’

If you can read a thread about Kipling
Even if you’ve never kippled
If you’ve any understanding
Of human perception uncrippled
If you can bear without patronising
The opinions writ of others (sorry! Poetic licence)
If you can bear to pass on PC memes
And use some common sense
And keep a sense of humour
At opinions weird or dense
If you can show some toleration
Without rushing to a ban
Or running home to GNHQ
Then you’re a Gransnet Gran.

"I eat" isn't Milligan lemon it's anonymous.
I always prefer Milligan's "On the Ning,Nang Nong" Now that SHOULD be on a wall. Brighten everyone's day.

MawBroon - Nice one!

Maw you missed your way! You're a poet and didn't know it!

Maw ???????

if you bother to read the thread you will find many posts from people who think the poem needs proper discussion.

Many posts, yes. But only three or four people at a push.

As only around 6 people have been involved in the discussion since "If" was mentioned Maw that's over 75%.
As for poetry like IF
It's not bloody difficult
Done in 15 mins

If you can read a thread on grans net
And not believe the world is going to pot
If you are can hear some real rubbish, yet
Not believe a load of absolute rot

If you can face the right wing views
Of people who say they really care
But constantly dispute the news
And don’t believe what’s really there

If you can stick to to the real left
And take the cries of communist
And not lose faith or even feel bereft
By accusations you’re a Corbynist

Then you can hold you head up high
And know that your beliefs stand strong
That those who wring their hands and sigh
Will at the next election be proved wrong

Oh another good entry for the Poetry Prize.. well done Trisher and MAW!

Touché

Most poetry (literature and art) benefits from discussion and analysis! Broadening understanding, challenging initial responses ..it's all good for the brain!

I have appreciated pieces of art work far more when I understood/learned about the context/ artist etc. I might still not want to hang it in my home but I have understood better.

As only around 6 people have been involved..... 10, actually. And yes, I’ve too much time on my hands today.

And I’m not Maw.

That's a good try too trisher but it doesnt have the flow or cadence that Maw's has.

Chewbacca you expect an awful lot in 15 mins!
It just indicates that rhyming poetry like IF isn't that hard to do.
Apologies Maggiemaybe I had my poet's hat on.

15 minutes?
I might have turned out something rather better if I had had that long.

Any time Maw I can give you a poem to parody if you like. We could start a thread and invite people to post. Of course we would have to trust that people were being honest about the time taken.

Of course.

Fair play trisher, I couldn't have turned that out in 15 hours, let alone 15 minutes! So well done!

Parodies are fun and easy to do, writing the poem that others parody... not so easy!

We shall have to differ about Kipling’s poem ( it’s what adults do.)

Applause all round......or jazz hands for those who prefer.