No Idea What To Do Next

Sorry, just seen your reply dated 29th. Do hope your visit to the police was successful and I hope this awful situation is soon resolved for you and your husband. Deep empathy to you both.

Another thought. Your granddaughter's new baby sister is most at risk if her early life is chaotic and abusive. The addicted partner is her father so she doesn't even have the wonderful support of your son. For the sake of that little one who is living daily with those two, I would invite you to approach Social Services without delay. Otherwise your granddaughters will feel responsibility for her beyond their years.

Gabriella it seems that mum became addicted to ice after the breakup, when she met her new abusive partner.

If your DiL was with your son for 10 years and became addicted to ice within that time whilst also being mother to his 2 children, how and where was she introduced to the stuff and why did your son not notice it/ know about it?
It seems strange that an addiction to a class A drug could go unnoticed.

agnurse not only provides information that is often legally inaccurate, it usually is totally lacking in emotional intelligence or compassion.

Lisigp60.....A good point has been made, advice is dependant on which country you live in.

Did you get any support from the Police when you went to talk to them?

Thinking of you all

Oh agnurse, you do keep on doing that, don't you? Please do try and remember that the laws in Canada are not the same as in the UK. And you have been reminded before.

Lisigp60 my sister in Tennessee is a retired children's services officer and she has verified that your son has every reason to refuse contact between the girls and their mother.
Your 11 year old gd is old enough to be interviewed and her views taken in to account. Police really should not be arresting their father given the serious reasons for stopping contact.
Hope this helps.

*Agnurse *:
Reasons for Preventing Contact
A parent who wants to stop or limit contact with the other parent usually has to go back to court and ask a judge for an order.

But if the children are in physical or psychological danger (for example, in the case of death threats), a parent can do what is necessary to protect the children. Later, this parent can go to court and ask for an order to prevent the other parent from seeing the children or limiting visits.

A judge will stop contact between a parent and the children if

it is an exceptional situation, or
a drastic decision is necessary to protect the interests of the children.
A judge will carefully evaluate a decision to prevent children from seeing one of their parents. If possible, the judge will opt for something less extreme, such as supervised contact. For example, this would allow parents who are in jailto have some contact with their children, as long as the judge believes this is in the interests of the chi

Agnurse Thanks for the info but I'm afraid what you are saying is wrong. My background is Child protection at a senior level with considerable amount of years spent in Court.
Please don't encourage people to put children at risk of serious harm.
It would also appear that she is probably not a UK resident.

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions but unfortunately all of it has already been done.

1. I’ve kept a diary of events since the outset of this.

2. I’ve reported to child safety and department of families and women’s services and sought legal advice to the tune of almost $10k.

3. I’ve been told that my son should go to the court and seek an interim hearing to have the order changed. How can he do that? He works full time in a job it took him months to get. He’s already had to take three days off to attend the court mandated family psychologist sessions. This didn’t please his boss one little bit. His job is on the line.

4. It has been reported to the school and both girls have been seen by the school counsellor.

5. We have tried the phone thing. Firstly, there’s no service where they live. It’s remote and isolated. They have only one neighbor who the girls don’t know and it would take them ten minutes to get there. Their mother confiscates the phone as soon as they are there. They say they trust their Mum to keep them safe but are worried she will get hurt doing it.

I know the story is complex and seems quite incredible. But hand on heart this is what has happened and I feel so helpless. I feel it is just another one of those cases that the authorities will hold an investigation into once the damage is done.

Hubby and I are off to see the police. Thanks so much for all your advice and for just listening. It has been most helpful. ?

Solitaire

If there is a court order, and that order has not been changed, the father could legitimately be charged with violating a court order and with parental abduction of his children. It's not his place to take the law into his own hands. If he is arrested and charged, the children could well end up with NO parents. The judge will not look kindly on him violating a court order, even if he feels it's in his children's best interests.

One cannot unilaterally violate a court order based on one's own "feelings".

I can't believe that some people are advising lisigp60 to deliver the children to their mother given the concerns which she highlighted.
Reporting to NSPCC may help but they refer on to Social Services as the primary agency for child protection.
Although there is a Court order in place it would appear that concerns have arisen, or changed since the making of the order.
Delivering the children to a potentially dangerous situation is not protecting them, it is at its least very irresponsible.
Stop contact, unless supervised away from mum's partner and report concerns to Social Services and be forceful. The children's safety is paramount and you don't need a solicitor to take the matter back to Court, dad can do this himself.

Hazy52 - what tv programme led to you believe 'drug addict's' had their children removed at birth? The majority of children known to agencies as being 'at risk' have parents who are addicted to drugs/alcohol and living in homes which are chaotic and often violent.
We have huge problems in this country.

Crystal meths is ice.

Lisigp60
When you said your daughter in law is addicted to 'ice' did you mean spice?
I hope to God that your grandchildren never see her in the grip of this drug.
Users of this drug are not just comatose, they can become violent.

sharon103

The thing is, the mother could accuse the father (rightly) of parental abduction. If he does decide that he needs to seek primary custody of his children, the judge will not look at that kindly. In the absence of professionally identified risks, realistically, he has no option but to give them to her. Objectively, too, the children have a right to have a relationship with their mother.

I'm not saying the circumstances are ideal. They're hardly so. But legally, the son does not have the right to deny his children a relationship with their mother. There are appropriate authorities and agencies whose job it is to identify safeguarding concerns. If those agencies have failed to identify a problem, it is not incumbent on the son to decide for himself that his ex isn't safe.

Everything Monica said...you can't be too careful where children's safety is concerned ...plus keep dated copies of what you've said to these agencies and any written replies. If you are contacting by phone make sure you write down the names of people you speak to. If they say they'll get back to you ask for a time frame and recontact if necessary.

Excellent advice from Monica, also contact the NSPCC. and ensure that the girls' school is totally aware of the situation. It isn't being 'alarmist' it is preventing a potentially dangerous situation and safeguarding your precious granddaughters. Keep us posted, please, as there is so much sound advice here.

We found the NSPCC, also mentioned by RillaofIngleside, provided the most effective action and advice in a comparable situation. Also, a joint letter to the Director of Children's Services from your self and your son may be worth considering also.

Good advice from Monica and I wouldn't hand over the children in 4 days time, I would make an excuse like they're both poorly with dreadful colds so best to keep them at home.

Good advice from monica

There should only be supervised access for your ExDIL. Sounds like she's in a co dependent relationship that will end in tears.

I do understand your reluctance to intervene but ask yourself how you would feel if you handed those children over and something did happen to them.

There's your answer. But make sure you go through official channels. If you report to the authorities and they refuse to listen, ask for it in writing. There are few now that would take the risk if it's been officially reported to them. They will usually put the children first.

There is a clear safe-guarding issue here.
Speak to the school. They will be able to 'raise a concern' , just as you will. If the psychologist sessions have finished then the children will be eligible for school counselling. The counsellor is obliged to speak to the Child Protection Officer if she/he has concerns. Every concern raised forms part of the bigger picture when Social Services investigate the case.

Good advice from Monica and also making sure your gd has your phone number. Just keep reporting any incident to the police and SS. Good luck

If the mother's partner has genuinely threatened the lives of your GDs and the responsible agencies have ignored this I would inform the police. People threaten all sorts of things and don't mean it (I'm going to leave you etc.,) but threatening to kill two girls is not on - it's emotional bullying, and it's no wonder they are terrified. Such terror could damage their lives irrespective of whether they are physically harmed. A word of warning - drug addicts do not know what they are doing half the time. Sure, we can feel some sort of pity for those who are addicted but we have to take a utilitarian approach here - it's the greatest good for the greatest number. A drug addict who regularly threatens life definitely sees this as an option.