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Is it illegal?

(39 Posts)
NanaandGrampy Thu 07-Feb-19 17:04:58

Grampy and I were having a discussion about social care today and we got to wondering about the following scenario.

You have a partner or relative who has Dementia, possibly also other serious health issues. They are in hospital and due to be discharged. BUT they cannot live alone or with you.

Can you be forced to take them home either with you or into another care situation or could you just walk away and wash your hands of the situation?

I know this is a moral and legal issue but we were just talking about legal implications not moral. ( This is just a hypothetical situation and I am not planning on dumping Grampy anywhere in case anyone is concerned for his welfare :-) )

Does anyone know what the legal standing is?

PECS Fri 08-Feb-19 09:42:57

nanaandgrampy the trouble is we spend so much time fire fighting because of poor planning we are still not planning for the future.
Our children need to be thinking what / how they will manage their old age at a time when they are struggling to manage what's happening today!

BusterTank Fri 08-Feb-19 11:44:52

In my experience as a nurse , adult social social services would get involved . Depending on your finance situation , they might offer home care which you would top up with your own money . If this person goes into a home there pension will go towards the cost , in some cases of they have there own home they can be forced to sell it , to cover costs . This information is if the person is already in hospital . If you take the person to accident and emergency and leave them you can be done for aboundenment . Good luck .

Granny23 Fri 08-Feb-19 13:16:47

I hope no one is basing their future plans on the contradictory anecdotal 'information' on this thread. Factual Information is available on the Scottish and for England/Wales on the Westminster, government web sites or from Alzheimer's and other relevant Charity Websites.

I doubt if there are many full time carers who have not toyed with the idea of emptying the bank accounts and disappearing to warmer climes. The major drawback to this plan is that the burden of undertaking, arranging, paying for care would then fall on other family members - in my case that would be my two DDs, who are both in their late 40s, at the peak of their careers and with pre teen children and mortgages. There is no way I would subject them, their spouses and their children to this scenario.

M0nica Fri 08-Feb-19 18:11:45

Granny23, not necessarily. I took on responsibility for 4 relatives because they were childless and had no other relations to take responsibility. If I had walked away from them, there would have been entirely dependent on Social Services to arrange their care and organise their finances for them.

To my children they were very distant relatives they had rarely ever met and with all of us living scattered around the country hundreds of miles apart, responsibility ended with me.

Witzend Sat 09-Feb-19 08:56:36

AFAIK, nobody can be forced to pay for at-home care for another adult. The money should come out of their own funds.

A problem often arises when someone who badly needs care either insists that they don't need it, and won't allow carers in, or else refuses to pay for it. (We have family experience of this.). If nobody has Power of Attorney for finances, this can be a major headache.

After (far too much) family experience of dementia, I've heard of many cases where a hospital wants to discharge the person to their home, very often on their own, without adequate care being in place, and when relatives, for whatever reason, are unable to undertake their care. (It never happened in our situations, thank goodness.)

Frequently this only ends in a 'failed discharge', I.e. the person ending up in hospital again, after just a few days, because e.g. they've had yet another bad fall.

In such cases I've seen it advised to make sure the person has no house keys on them, so they can't be taken home regardless, and to ensure that nobody will be there to let them in. Might sound drastic, but it may sometimes be the only way.

NanaandGrampy Sat 09-Feb-19 09:42:07

So if you had no partner /husband to take responsibility for you , your children can be made to financially support you Granny23 ?

I would not have thought that could be enforced ?

Your right PECS it would be down to poor planning but when I think back to my 20's there was no inference that we would be in the situation we find ourselves in in the UK for social care. I totally agree it will be a very different picture for our children . Especially if the goal posts for retirement etc keep moving further off into the distance.

BusterTank , just to be clear , this was just me asking a hypothetical question not a situation I find myself in and hope to god I never do.

M0nica Sat 09-Feb-19 11:36:49

Your children cannot be made to support you, but SS will not tell them that, they will do everything they can to batten down on them and emotionally blackmail them into doing so.

If I sound bitter i am. I have, a number of times, taken on responsibility for the care of older relatives, who had no children or others able to help and my experiences at the mercy of the hospitals they were in and the SS meant to be providing or helping with care has been dreadful.

I became very familiar with official grievance procedures. I have also helped and advised others in similar situations.

Granny23 Sat 09-Feb-19 13:35:30

N & G I was not referring to the financial aspects but rather to the hands on caring responsibilities - feeding, dressing, toileting, cooking, cleaning, shopping, bill paying etc. Even if the person needing care is in a care home or has daily carers in their own home there is still all the arrangements, appointments, paying for help, liaising with SS and other agencies, gardening, property maintenance, chiropody, dentist, optician, etc.etc.

I was trapped in my late 40's early 50's while working full time + part-time (to put 2DDs through UNI) into taking on the caring responsibility for DM MIL, FIL, Maiden Aunts x 2. All 5 of them were in hospital simultaneously at one point. Each one complaining of a lack of enough visiting and only myself and DH (an only child) to deal with all the problems. This continued for some 5 years, with us unable to take a holiday or visit our DDs who were away at Uni.

This was back in the 1990's and there was, at least no problem with money as Mum &MIL had home helps, FIL and both Aunts were eventually in long term care/nursing homes - all funded by the local Council or NHSS. Changed days now as DH's Day Care and Respite breaks have to be paid for in full. less 20% for Personal Care paid by the Scottish Government.

annsixty Sat 09-Feb-19 13:57:46

I did not have to pay full fees for respite care for 6 weeks per year as this is what I had been assessed as needing by SS, had I wanted more I would have paid in full.
I paid £60 per day for daycare but could only get H in for one day a week.
I only had 4 weeks of the six before my H went in permanently.
I am still no further on with clarification in the £100 top up charges.

sarahellenwhitney Thu 21-Feb-19 17:17:43

Monica. Were it not for the as you put it 'tender mercies' of the SS, for the uninitiated ie Social Services , I could not have coped with and given my DH the care every human who cannot look after themselves should be entitled to in their last years.

trisher Thu 21-Feb-19 17:44:04

The SW I dealt with when my mum was in hospital and we were looking for a way of getting her out was great. He provided me with a list of care homes that could provide the nursing care mum needed. He talked to both of us but realised mum was not always 100% able to give her views so he often went back to talk to her again. When I said I didn't like any of the homes he set things in motion to get her back to her own flat with 24 hour care. Unfortunately she died before the arrangements were finalised. I never felt any pressure to make a decision and her views were always listened to - she didn't have dementia but she was 95 and a number of factors had affected her memory.

Franbern Sun 24-Feb-19 16:57:24

Do not think you would be forced to sell the marital home. However, when it was eventually sold, either by you, or after your own death, upto half can be taken to repay the costs

Floradora9 Sun 24-Feb-19 22:33:00

Franbern is Scotland there would be no claim on the house if the spouse was living in it . Their assets like cash shares etc. are devided equally and I think if the husband had the only work pension half of it is used for his care. You just have to sit tight and not downsize or go into sheltered accommodation in which case DH half of the house could be used for his care.