Advice please

Whoops!!!

Missfoodlove you’ll get more replies if you start a separate thread. This one is about a gran who’s worried about her DD and DGD.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I do understand your concern but please remember that the safety of your grandchild is paramount!

Health visitors can refer families for extra support. There are 2 different types of referral, Child in Need (CIN) & Child Protection (CP). I would refer many families as CIN but the difference in this case is you can only refer with a parents permission. In some cases you could tell the parent that if they didn’t give permission than that would up the anti. Either way the parent should be told unless it’s going to put a child at further risk. In this case the mum would be aware unless as has been said, we haven’t been told the full story

I didn’t have a health visitor come to my house only twice at birth and so many weeks after but that was a long time back None of my children had health visitors calling more than the statutory few times so there must be a big reason why a 3 year old is still having visits

I think that must be the bit we haven’t heard and probably the very bit the whole story hinges on

I was a HV for 11 years before I got a job in Child Protection. HV’s have responsibility for children from birth and have a statutory duty to see children. maxima25 asks why a 3 year old needs to be seen by a HV. This comment astounds me. There could be reasons why your daughter’s HV is concerned but you won’t be privy to that information but if it is a personality clash your DD is within her rights to ask for a different HV and remember she doesn’t have to allow her in the home although that could make the situation worse.

One other thought... Is it possible you're a little too close to the proverbial forest to see the situation clearly? Could it be, for example, that DD's getting "down" sometimes is really a deep form of depression, as some others have suggested? Whether you get a chance to attend the next meeting or not, please be sure you're being honest w/ yourself about DD's situation. I realize that DD is an adult, and if she declines your offer to be there, you'll have to respect that. But either way, I hope you'll be as objective as possible.

Hopefully, there was some misunderstanding, and/or DD can get a new HV. Just hope, in general, that all turns out well for her and GS.

Sorry DD is going through this, Worriedgran. I think you've been given some very good advice here, however, and some valuable food for thought has been raised as well. It's hard to explain everything in these posts. As such, I, for one, can't really tell if the HV is being overzealous, has biases against single mums, or if DD isn't being totally straight w/ you. I really hope DD is ok w/ your coming to the next meeting and that you are able to get the time off from work, even if you have to give up some time that you're allowed for illness or whatever. Then you can get a better picture of what's going on.

I volunteer for Home Start which is a support group for families. Look it up in your region and make a referral. I'm sure they'd love to help

Not saying you’re wrong, and it may well be that this HV does dislike your daughter, but, trying to play devil’s advocate, and just to pick out a few things that you have said in your posts, to maybe get a bit of perspective on what the health visitor has seen or heard that may have given her concerns.

“They keep bringing up her mental health - she gets down at times like all of us and just wants to be left alone with her child”
Your daughter must have said something to make this an issue. Maybe she has disclosed more depression to the HV than you are aware of. You say “She gets down, she doesn’t know who to trust and is wary of talking to anyone”, and she cried all night because the health visitor “ripped her to shreds”. If she does have any kind of mental health issue then she could be over-sensitive to criticism and see the health visitor’s attempts to raise issues as “ripping her to shreds”. And just wanting to be left alone with her child may sound as though she is withdrawing and isolating herself and the child.

“D is a bit untidy but that's it.”
This really is a subjective thing, isn’t it? One man’s “a bit untidy” is another man’s “filthy”. (I used to have a friend who was incredibly houseproud and was constantly saying “my house is a tip”. To me, it was showhome immaculate.) It depends on the nature of the tidy, as well, and what is being left lying around that may be a hazard to a little one. For example, if your daughter did needlework and left a sewing basket around with needles and pins inside, that could be a danger.

“HV said she needed carpets”.
Why? What is the current flooring? Does she have laminate (with rugs that could be a trip hazard), or lino (which may be split or cracked) or is it bare, unsanded/unvarnished floorboards (that could be a splinter hazard). Children’s Services are right – lots of people DO live without carpets. But it depends on what the floor situation is and how it could be seen as a danger to a child (or an adult for that matter)

“She doesnt like my daughter's flat - its an upstairs one (she has a 3 year old), she doesnt like the idea child could fall down stairs but she doesnt want a gate up because of health & safety!“
This is just bizarre, and surely must be a misunderstanding. Where in your daughter’s flat are the stairs? You say “there are no communal stairs - she lives in an upstairs flat so the stairs are just stairs.” Is it a two storey flat/maisonette? What stairs is the HV worried about? Yes, stairs are just stairs – but from where to where? From the exterior door of the block of flats to your daughter’s landing? Or to her front door?

I’d go along with the suggestion by some other posters to be there when the HV next visits – but only if that’s what your daughter wants. And do in a supportive role, not to be challenging and defensive. Of course you want to protect your daughter but it won’t help if you come across as obstructive and argumentative.

It’s a positive that your grandson is at nursery as that is “another pair of eyes” on him, which will either show that there are no concerns, or may be another piece of a jigsaw puzzle.

As an aside, a serious case review investigating the death of a child found that several different agencies each had small concerns for the child, but none of the concerns were enough on their own to be referred to child protection. Those agencies didn’t share each of their concerns with any of the other agencies. But taken as a whole, the picture of that child’s lived experience was horrendous and because they were not referred, no single agency “took ownership” of the overall picture and the child tragically died. This is why professionals now raise and share their concerns, no matter how insignificant and nit-picking they may seem to the families.

Don’t see Children’s Services as the enemy. They genuinely just want the best outcome for the child, even if the families don’t see it that way. They do NOT want to split families up and they don’t want to remove children. I would encourage your daughter to engage with any help and support she’s offered. If she is struggling, be that with mental health, finances, isolation, whatever – support is there for her.

I am horrified to read Struggling2do1, a retired social worker, advise you to tell your daughter to send the HV packing.

Mine wasn't hearsay, Lumarei !

Well said Lumarei.

I am very surprised how people can give advise and judge people (HV and CS) and situations purely on heresay and very little background info. It‘s crazy speculating on the actions of a HV without knowing anything in particular. Nobody not even the OP knows what is going on. I don‘t even believe for one second that carpets are an issue. It might have been mentioned but not everything that is mentioned is crucial. We don‘t know the relationship between the OP and her daughter and how much the daughter confides in her mother.

The only thing anyone can comment on here is: „Go and find out what is really going on. Go to that meeting and support daughter and show HV that all das s well.“.

If Social Services have become involved it is possible that someone - not necessarily the HV has made a child protection referral. your daughter needs to be open with the HV and with you. Her standards may need to be looked at in terms of safety and cleanliness. The HV is doing her job. and the services are looking at whether her parenting is " good enough. There are different types of stair gates - has you daughter looked at the options available. As mentioned above, can your GC go to nursery. This will give your daughter some time and will be another form of monitoring for the agencies. Your daughter is rejecting your help and is not accepting HV advice. If your daughter fails to work with the agencies it is possible that Social Services will look at the options available to ensure that all your GCs needs are being met to ensure his safety and well being.

All good advice. Is the child thriving? Is he happy? Is he achieving his development goals? These are the most important questions I think.

Do you live close enough to visit on an irregular basis? Can you have the child to babysit for a day? I remember being holed up in a tiny flat just after my first baby, and didn't know anybody locally. The stairs situation was very like yours, with a long flight to the ground. We put up a gate! Had to make a special effort to get out and about. A mum can be a huge morale booster at such times.

Very good idea about the SAR to see what has been said and is on record. The advice about a child gate is conflicting and doesn't make sense. Definitely should be there at the next appointment.

Has there been any contact with the GP? You might need an SAR for him, too.

Good luck Worriedgran24. Your daughter deserves better than what you have described.

It sends like the HV has the problem and unless your daughter has a appointment she shouldn't let them in. I would be inclined to let someone know, doctor etc... that instead of offering support she has bought your daughter down. Which is actually quite cruel! I think she needs to complain and maybe see if she can see a HV at the doctors or clinic rather than home visit. Your poor daughter sounds very vulnerable, just remind her she's doing a great job. Good luck

Thank you all so much for your mainly positive comments. I actually give my daughter a lot of support as she would tell you - I'm not going into all that on here though - I just wanted advice about the HV and that I was not the only one who thought she was being a tad unreasonable. My GS is fabulous well looked after little tyke, he's healthy, chatty and adorable.

WorriedGran, I have had the same sort of thing you describe with my foster-daughter and her health visitor who got off on the wrong foot with each other.

This caused a great deal of concern and agitated phone calls - we are at the other end of the country to DD, so being present at the next visit wasn't an option.

Ask your daughter if she would like you there next time the health visitor calls. If she agrees to this, sit down with her beforehand and find out exactly what the HV's concerns are.

Disliking a upstairs flat sounds ridiculous to me, surely there is a front door the child cannot open, so he is unlikely to fall down the stairs?

Perhaps you meant your DD is living on the upper floor of a private house where she rents a flat? If there isn't a door to the landing then please, go and buy a safety gate. Argos sells one for about £16 and put it up. I presume when they are for sale they comply with the health and safety regulations.

If HV doesn't like it, ask her to submit her complaints in writing, then contact her supervisor if you feel she is being unreasonable.

My DD's health visitor was in the wrong, yours may be too, but equally your DD may just be as sensitive to comments as most young mothers are.

Why does HV think the flat should be carpeted? Are the floors very cold? Tell her you disapprove of carpets on account of dust mites, that should, as my Grannie would have said, "put her gas on a peep".

(My DD's health visitor objected to DGS being brought up to speak both his parents' native languages! )

I don't quite understand your daughter's comment that she wants a mum, not someone who tidies her flat. If you don't understand that remark either, ask her nicely what she does want you to do.

What I can't understand Worriedgran, is why a HV would say that the stairs need a safety gate but then state that to have a gate would be a Health and Safety risk.
Do you think that perhaps your Daughter may have misunderstood?
Maybe the HV said that stairs would need a safety gate as there is a Health and Safety risk to not have a gate.
Otherwise it makes no sense at all.

I'm surprised at some of the answers here, implying that you can never get a dodgy professional.

There are dodgy people in all walks of life, including mothers and professionals.

Good luck, OP.

Is it possible your daughter's problem with HV have come about due to a noise problem It is recommended that if you live in a upstairs flat under lay and carpets stop the noise

Definitely aim to be there for the next and future appointments!!!
you can't always trust these so called professionals! I have a family member who is a social worker, in his private life his a moody disaster.

I have only seeped read your post and the replies but it resinated with my sisters neighbour's situation. The young lady involved ended up talking to CAB and Women's Aid (we have a drop in centre with a cafe/advice bit) then had a worker from Women's Aid was with the young lady for HV's next visit. Things changed very quickly so I'm guessing CAB and WA knew their way around the rights and wrongs of HV's Child Services and so on.

If you follow up on some good advice here and do some research you'll be in a stronger position.

However, if your DD wants a Mum not someone who tides up then will she accept that you can are really working at helping her or if the information/help comes from you will she just see it as you interfering and not being the Mum she wants.

You know your DD better than we do here at GN so if you think she'll take your help go for it if you think she will see you as interfering work at getting her to talk to other sources of help. Good Luck and wishing you the best of all possible outcomes.

Struggling2dol is correct. I'm not wholly anti-establishment but " overuse " of a position when not necessary gets right up my nose and in this case can cause psychological damage. Take it from one who knows !