Seized tanker

As for the idea that because one sanction doesn't work we should get rid of the EU that is throwing the baby out wih the bath water! (Sorry I know it's a cliche along with colonialism but really when people have old-fashioned ideas only cliches will do!)

POGS it may be tired it may be old but if you can give me another reason other than good old fashioned colonialism for the belief "the British are sane, their opponents are mad" I'd like to hear it. The Iranians are patently not mad they are playing a complicated and difficult game of international politics and doing it fairly well. And I didn't bring the idea of madness into the debate.

trisher

The tired old rhetoric of bringing Colonialism into a debate is an act of desperation.

Surely the subject can be debated on facts and current news.

trisher

"As far as the Iranians are concerned it was British troops illegally stoppng an Iranian tanker which caused this whole thing."
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Of course the Iranians and those who support the Iran Government say it was illegal.

The tit for tat, he said, she said comments will always prevail.

What I do not understand is the ease with which those who are strong advocates of the E U and all it's protocols, legislature etc. do not think the EU Sanction against Iran should be upheld or indeed show full support to an EU member state/states that act on the EU Sanction.

One thing I will agree with you is when you said :-

" POGS if a policy doesn't work (and manifestly it doesn't, oil being supplied regularly to Syria) what is the point of it?"

If the European Union Sanction on Assad is mery mealy mouthed words and they turn a blind eye to their own Sanction what is the point of either the EU or the Sanction.?

Well that’s an opinion trisher.

They are perfectly reasonable maddyone and this concept that anyone who disagrees with us is therefore mad smacks of colonialism and the idea that the natives are revolting. They do of course have their own interests at heart, but then so does any country. This idea that they are completely unreasonable has been widely cultivated by the Americans who have never got over the fact that they slung out the puppet Shah. the US installed after WW2

Good luck with getting the government of Iran to discuss things reasonably trisher.

It would seem that our good friend Trump is not going to help us out with the seized tanker so we are asking our ex friends in Europe for support!

POGS the Iranian Guard ' illegally ' boarded the Stena Impero outside of Iranian waters
As far as the Iranians are concerned it was British troops illegally stoppng an Iranian tanker which caused this whole thing. You see it's no good just seeing things from a British point of view you have to try and understand what others believe. That's the only way agreement can be reached.

trisher

It is not a case of any form of Nostalgia on my part of thinking ' Britannia Rules the Waves.' syndrome.

If you are a country which is part of the EU it should abide by the rules but you are saying the rules should not be adhered to, dispense of the common ground at will. That is a principle that if viewed appropriate over the Grace I breaking EU Sanctions then it applies across the board, you can't pick and choose when to accept the rules. Or obviously you think that is the case.

As for your point :-

"But what is evident is that we can no longer pretend to police the seas in an area which is so far away from us anyway and maybe it is time to admit that"

I don't think anybody has said differently from the UK Government down to Gransnet.

It has no relevance to the fact the Iranian Guard ' illegally ' boarded the Stena Impero outside of Iranian waters.

POGS if a policy doesn't work (and manifestly it doesn't, oil being supplied regularly to Syria) what is the point of it? Arguably the Iranian tanker was sent on the route it was because the Iranians wanted to test the sanctions. There are other reasons. But what is evident is that we can no longer pretend to police the seas in an area which is so far away from us anyway and maybe it is time to admit that. Hand the Iranian tanker back, get the crew of the Swedish tanker released and stop pretending Britannia still rules the waves.

trisher

"POGS maybe then we should have let the EU handle it."
---

That comment was irony coming from a staunch EU supporter.

So being a country in the EU Gibraltar should have turned a blind eye to the European Union Sanctions?

No country should unilaterally take responsibility for taking actions to abide by ?

Does that policy extend to land, sea and air?

POGS maybe then we should have let the EU handle it. Oh but there isn't an EU navy (anymore than there is the much threatened EU army).
But in fact Iran has been supplying oil to Syria by a much shorter route for a long time. There are many reasons why the tanker seized took the route it did. It may have been a test run. It may have been a way of seeing how far the UK would go. Lots of possibilities. But any idea that stopping this one tanker has stopped oil getting to Syria is totally wrong. We might as well let it go, we're not doing well with sanctions any way (But of course the US wouldn't like it)

trisher

What do you think Gibraltar should have done given Gibraltar is in the EU and the EU has a Sanction against Assad?

Should the EU Sanction be ignored?

Barmeyoldbat

'Where is he in all this."

Who is' he '?

Let's face facts if we seize an Iranian tanker because we think it's taking oil to Syria the Iranians were going to retaliate. Regardless of who owns it something flying the British flag was going to be seized. One thing this has shown is that the Royal Navy is no longer able to protect all British flagged ships. I would imagine the insurance companies and many shipping lines are hastily working out costs involved and who it might be best to sail under now.
Hand back the Iranian oil-problem solved!

Yes we have the support of our friends in Europe who we are hoping to leave for our new best friend. Where is he in all this.

Just read that India japan Asia China Korea plus a few othaers consume 80-90% of gulf oil but don’t contribute to protection of these water ways.

As far as I know, P & O hasn't been a British company for years

Gonegirl

Taxation? Who knows?

However as you have read there are various reasons why companies adopt the commonly used ' flag' status.

The ' Stena Impero ' belongs to the company ' Stena Bulk ' who have global offices including Glasgow so maybe it is not unreasonable to use on some of their sea vessels the British flag.

Stena Line Ferries belong to Stena Bulk and like P & O there was talk of moving their UK registered vessels due to Brexit. P & O of course fly the ' Cypriot Flag ' amongst others but it a UK company.

So all in all in my opinion there is not necessarily anything particularly sinister behind companies flying ' the flag ' of another country, albeit there might be Taxation, staffing /wages conditions etc. that might be seen as unpalatable to many.

My D works for Stena.

Thanks POGS. I think I get it now. Sounds like taxation comes into it. We must be cheaper than some.

Gonegirl

There are various reasons for registering maritime vessels under another countries ' flag'.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_state

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

I think you could be right merlotgran, it had occurred to me too that registering in Britain means the Royal Navy will be called upon to protect the ship in the event of the ship running into trouble.

I don’t think this situation has been engineered by the USA but I do think DT hasn’t been either diplomatic or helpful by ripping up Obama’s agreement with Iran.

Ellan I agree totally with you, it is disastrous that our armed forces have been so depleted, by both of the major parties over a long time.

The family are worth $3.9 billion dollars - I’m pleased my taxes are helping to protect their fortune