Should Have Kept my Big Mouth Shut!

The difficulty is that we all live too far away for any of us to intervene effectively. DD2's older sister (my other daughter) was visiting her sister three years ago when she too witnessed the abuse. At the time, she also had a lot to say and despite the ensuing row, it led to some family counseling. Things seemed to improve and SIL2 was on his best behavior for awhile, but it didn't last.

During our visit this last May, we witnessed once again the same kind of abusive language towards our GS. I held back because we were leaving the next morning. In retrospect, I think that's what prompted my reaction yesterday, over the phone.

Now that he's older, GS is sullen and withdrawn most of the time and doesn't have much to say to the adults in his life, including us. He prefers to spend his time looking at 'screens'. We could say that this is not unusual for pre-teens these days, but the paternal abuse and the other behavioral issues outside of the home are not.

Sounds like this needed to be said, and good for you to have said it. No doubt your DD is shocked but presumably even if she is trying to keep the peace and be reasonable at home she is not blind and must see that her H is unkind, bullying and unreasonable.
If you start beating yourself up remember:
'If you ignore it, you condone it; if you condone it you encourage it'.
You can't do that - and you have spoken up to defend your GS. Good for you.

I think you were right to speak out, someone has to to protect your GS. You have stated about the trouble he is getting into. He sounds like a very unhappy boy and you are right to stand up for him. It sounds like the family could use some counselling. To say those things to a little boy is horrid and abusive I am surprised you haven’t taken your SIL aside before now, well done for showing restraint, but you GSmis getting hurt.

What you have definitely done wrong is to not speak up sooner.

It's a classic history repeating itself the bullied becoming the bully.

You need to have a good long talk to your daughter and admit you were in the wrong but only because you have not said anything sooner then blurted it out at a vulnerable time.

Sort yourselves out to help this sad young boy out going forward.

You did the right thing...too long we hold our tongue to keep the peace but what we end up doing is enabling the person to carry on.
Your DD will no doubt be shocked & angry initially but then hopefully she'll start to think back on the incidents you have mentioned and then take action.
She will come back to you in due course

Your DD asked, and you answered. So i would say don't beat yourself up about it. When you next speak to her, tell her you are sorry if you upset her and that wasn't your intention. But you genuinely want to help with the situation because the boy is such a bright boy who you love dearly.

You might have, unknowingly, done every one a favour.
Now at least your daughter has another slant on things, another viewpoint which may just encourage her to notice things she previously overlooked or didn't overhear.
I hope this is the case and your DD tackles her DH about his behaviour towards their son.
Fingers crossed it works out for the best.

You had no choice. Your daughter did not want to hear it but that doesn't mean that she won't think about it and not ignore it next time she hears him do it.
I wish someone had done that for me when I was a child although my father was more careful to usually be nasty when there was no one else around. Your SIL sounds as if he is just copying learned behaviour and doesn't really know any other way. It is unfortunate that your daughter ignored it rather than pulling him up on it at the time. Very few people want to be bad parents and, approached the right way, he probably could have changed particularly if he was reminded of how he felt about it as a child.
The question is where to go from here. I would give her time to absorb what you said and then decide how to approach her because you need to be in your GS's life. He needs someone giving him confidence and pointing out the good things that he does and it looks like that has to be you.

Good for you for saying what needed to be said. Your daughter might not like it but its time she faced up to the truth. If she cant stand up for her son then someone has to. If there is a school inclusion officer involved try having a quiet word with them. You dont need to go into details but you could try saying that your GS may have things that he needs to get off his chest about family relationships.
I having a feeling his father knows exactly what hes doing and was either brought up with critisism himself or is jealous of the boy. I wonder if your GS is bright and his father feels threatened by it.

No details but my SiL was verbally abusive to his children, (my GCs), and after a particular bad incident that I witnessed, I spoke to my daughter. She excused his behaviour as work stress. Instead of holding back I told her what I thought.
Change didn't occur overnight but it did and has happened and everyone is so much more relaxed and happy. A diagnosis of ASD/ADHD for my 2nd GS and a change of job for my SiL als had a huge positive effect.

Sometimes, speaking out is the only thing you can do.

well maybe now she will look most closely at her husband ,and realise he is the problem ,not her son...maybe counselling for all ,starting with the school.....then the husband .he's nothing less than a bully...i'm glad you said it. good for you......

I agree with KatyK. It's not like you told your daughter it was her fault, you blamed the SIL. You can probably get away with it one time. I advise don't mention it again. She'll think on it.

Your daughter may think about what you've said for a while. Our childhoods can leave a mark on us (mine has). I think the piece by Russell Brand is very true. Good luck.

I appreciate that it was very difficult but your grandson has grown up with the most horrible abuse. I don’t think I could have kept quiet for so many years. A grandad bully, a bully for a dad and now he is the school bully. This might well continue through your grandsons life with him being the husband and father bullying his family.
You cannot put right all that has passed and all the put downs that have occurred and it might be too late for things to be put right but you can only start from here and I hope that your dear grandson can change from the attitude that men need to be cruel and abusive. This is so far from the truth but so far it is all he has seen. Poor boy he must be very unhappy at the moment.

We can tell from your post that usually you are very aware and very careful, kind and considerate of others especially your family even when there are situations that would test the patience of angels.

Somehow today you were simply human - doing the best you can in difficult circumstances.

Be extra kind to yourself today - forgive this blip - smile at the ridiculousness of that negative, nagging voice inside that will keep trying and keep trying to make you feel bad because of this slip. There isn't any need to feel bad.

Our humanity is also our love.

You did the right thing. Your SiL probably doesn't realise how much damage he is causing or how damaged he is himself. Show him this and ask him to think about what his parents did to him.

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

Good grief I couldn't have held back and I'm usually not a critical nor troublesome person but where children are concerned I start to boil up but instead of me being diplomatic I tend to be fiery because I'm no good at throwing hints.
No, you shouldn't have kept your mouth shut at all, enough is enough and this poor lad will suffer in time to come as speaking to someone like his father does has a drastic effect on their mental health and well-being. Poor lad it's disgraceful I feel for him and like yourself I couldn't just be a bystander when this is going on.

It's just tuff if anyone takes umbrage !

Interesting reading this. My oldest grandson who's 11 has the most appalling attitude to my son and berates him( other side of your problem) he has no respect and calls him awful names and has filthy temper. I must say he doesn't have this attitude with us but we don't live with him. I've sided to say something and have held my tongue he does have problems at school and I'm leaving it to them. However waiting for further expulsions.minthink you did right.

I am sure I would have done the same. Just wait for the dust to settle and I have a feeling that it will all turn out for the best. It is natural to want to protect those we love.

You had to speak out when you did. Everyone needs a champion and your DGS does especially.
I wonder if the camp leaders can help.
SiL2 needs a talking to but how?

I was once berating my 3yr old loudly in the garden and my next door neighbour overheard and said something like: He's only little, can't you leave him alone.

I was startled but once the shock had subsided I realised she was quite right. How could I talk to a small child like that however mad he was driving me at the time.
I am grateful to that woman now for stopping me when she did.

I am sure your DD will forgive you and hopefully will accept some advice and help with nipping this pattern of behaviour in the bud before it gets worse.

Briefly...I think you did the right thing!

Willa I also believe in saying nothing - but in a situation like this where a grandchild has been bullied and undermined for all his life by his own father (and grandfather too) I would have said something too.

This is a pattern of behaviour which is being passed down the generations; it will seem like the norm for your SIL but it is not the right way to behave towards a child and the results are now evident as he is becoming a frustrated bully himself.

Something needs to be done to break this pattern of behaviour and perhaps this could be the first step.

Do not apologise but, when your daughter has got over the shock of having this pointed out to her, she should realise what the problem is. I hope she will come back to you so that you can talk about this calmly and rationally and she can talk to your SIL and get him to understand how damaging his attitude is, or persuade him that they may need family counselling.

I hope she has the strength to stand up to your SIL without causing a row.
Some men, unfortunately, seem to think that this is 'how to make a man' of their sons and that behaving in a loving way will make them 'soft'.

Good luck, don't feel bad about this, and I hope that this could be the breakthrough they need.

You absolutely did the right thing.

Of course you have done the right thing. I cannot bear it when I see the "macho" dad thing going on - some men are so peculiar with their sons - all this "toughening up" stuff is utterly cringe-worthy.= and so so damaging.

I am glad you spoke up - what else could you have done?Your poor GS will benefit from this. It will no doubt cause problems for you in your relationship with SIL but it had to be dine, and I commend you for it.

A "listening ear" would not have cut the mustard in this instance.

Children so badly need affirmation of their worth - as badly as they need food. This poor young man has been starved.

I agree with Shropshirelass you had to say something. Once she has cooled down your daughter may well want to talk more about this, your support for the family will mean a lot to her.