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Niqab/burqa ban in Netherlands

(272 Posts)
Newquay Thu 01-Aug-19 19:27:45

Just seen above on news/FB. I met a friend for a canal walk finishing up in lovely cafe. Was startled to see 3 young women covered head to to toe including face in dark grey. They had a young man (husband?) with them and several young children. It made for an uncomfortable atmosphere.

Rosieroe Fri 02-Aug-19 22:31:12

I have to laugh at the suggestion that when confronted with someone who’s face is completely covered your response should be to smile at them. Really? How do you know that they are smiling back or sneering at you?

quizqueen Fri 02-Aug-19 22:06:02

Everyone should reveal their face for security reasons. Try going into a bank with a crash helmet or balaclava on and see what the staff have to say. Does this country expect equality or not, or are some more equal than others, as Orwell would say?

Alexa Fri 02-Aug-19 21:57:22

To feel startled by someone else's unusual dress is not the same as judging them.

blondenana Fri 02-Aug-19 21:55:59

What Day said, as soon as anything is mentioned about muslims or the way they dress or any comment we are branded racist
If we lived in a muslim country,or any other country for that matter, we would have to abide by their laws
I agree that faces shouldn't be covered, at least

MissAdventure Fri 02-Aug-19 21:17:25

grin

Lessismore Fri 02-Aug-19 21:02:19

It can be embarrassing sharing a small room with a judgemental old bat in twin set and pearls.

EllanVannin Fri 02-Aug-19 20:58:55

Pamela of course I've flown with them.I said so earlier on, plus I knew they removed them for when they ate/drank.

Alexa Fri 02-Aug-19 20:40:00

It can be a little embarassing to have to occupy the same small room as someone who draws attention to herself by unusual clothing, e.g. ethnic dress, body piercings, mismatched shoes , show-offy designer stuff, and so forth. I think one has to try not to look embarassed .

Lessismore Fri 02-Aug-19 19:54:25

I see the nasty stakes have ramped up.

petra Fri 02-Aug-19 19:20:44

Lessismore
Well spotted, Sherlock.

PamelaJ1 Fri 02-Aug-19 18:35:41

EllenVannin, I’ve been on planes with Women who board with the full burka on.
They usually go to the loo after take off and remove it! Have you never experienced that?

We are animals and use facial expressions to judge responses etc. I don’t think that one can interact with someone whose face is invisible as well as one that can be seen. Whatever one feels about the rights and wrongs, surely a mask is a barrier?
Catholic’s use the barrier in the confessional box to ensure anonymity.
Re: the female jockey in the hijab, I am not too sure why that hit the headlines. How was wearing it ever going to affect how she rode?

Lessismore Fri 02-Aug-19 18:34:39

That's just mean and sarcastic petra.

petra Fri 02-Aug-19 18:16:43

EllanVannin
We sell quite a few Dashiki outfits through the charity shop where I work. Haven't come across a face covering to go with the outfits. Must ask the ladies if they've forgotten them next time they donate.

EllanVannin Fri 02-Aug-19 18:02:34

There'll be a ban on nuns habits next and the brothers who dwell in monasteries. Or the beautiful Dashiki clothes of African ladies in case it upsets people.

Get a flaming life !!

POGS Fri 02-Aug-19 17:55:24

AUSTRIA
BELGIUM
BULGARIA
KOSOVO
DENMARK
FRANCE
GERMANY
LATVIA
NETHERLANDS
NORWAY
ALGERIA
SYRIA
TUNISIA
SPAIN
CHAD
CAMAROON
NIGER
CONGO BRAZZAVILLE
SWITZERLAND

Maybe more.

Happy to be corrected but it is my belief the above list of countries either have a ban on the wearing of the burka /chadaree or partial ban on face covering.

It is also a fact not all Muslims want, adhere to, believe in the wearing of the burka/ chadaree so the chant of ' racist' does not necessarily even make sense.

Context!

Jane10 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:48:28

In lots of Muslim countries there is no requirement to cover the head. Its a middle Eastern habit originally developed to protect the head and face from sand.
I was told this by Muslim women who were fed up at other Muslim women and saw it as 'virtue signalling'. My Bangladeshi friend even refused to talk to 'these covered up women. Who do they think they are?' she said!!

Diane227 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:25:53

Plenty of women walking around my area covered up from head to foot in the winter. Boots, jeans and Parkas!!
Also what makes me feel uncomfortable are women in tight leggings showing off everything theyve got. Put it away dear.
Plenty of criminals walking about with their faces uncovered , you dont need to be wearing a Burqa or a balaclava to be up to no good.
I wouldnt want anyone to have to cover their face but its up to them and their culture/religion.

grandtanteJE65 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:22:50

I believe any country can ban women and men whose faces covered from entering public buildings or using public transport.

Here (Denmark) it is illegal to sit public examinations unless your face can be seen, and France banned girls wearing head-scarves in public schools quite some years ago now.

Morocco has just banned women in burqas or niqab from entering public buildings and so, I believe, has Tunasia.

EllanVannin Fri 02-Aug-19 15:08:57

I was brought up in a household where I was told that " it was rude to stare ". Also to be " pass-remarkable " was a no-no too. Maybe manners ought to be adopted ?

Day6 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:08:03

I've never seen a bee keeper/welder with full face cover out on my high street, I won't say never cos who knows some dickhead avant garde fashion designer might put them out on the catwalk anytime soon and as a consequence they could become de rigueur

In stitches here TerriBull
Yes, wouldn't be surprised to see a cat-walk model wearing a bee-keepers outfit come London Fashion Week! grin

Iam64 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:02:57

Phone took on its independent life there and posted. I want to add, important to discuss issues that we find s bit of s challenge

Iam64 Fri 02-Aug-19 15:01:46

Interesting post TerriBull. It’s important to discuss

TerriBull Fri 02-Aug-19 14:54:02

4th para meant to say sympathises with the victims of patriarchy.

TerriBull Fri 02-Aug-19 14:30:40

The Burka, a well worn subject, but one I guess we will return to frequently. Whilst we debate about the appropriateness of such a garment it seems that our European counterparts are in increasing numbers banning the burka altogether. What does that say about them then? I've always thought France in particular has taken rather a sledgehammer approach to the matter. I've quite a few cousins in that country, and I remember a couple of years ago, there was a debacle about a Muslim lady on a beach being confronted by some jobsworth or other because she was wearing shock horror, a kafan, leggings and headscarf. What the hell was wrong with that!" better than being confronted by a wrinkly old arse less than pert derriere" said I to a cousin in an email, but he was the whole "when in France" attitude, which I simply don't agree with.

Nevertheless, they are a barrier and one can never be sure if it's "I'm wearing it because I want to or because I'm forced to" There are a whole raft of Muslim women such as Yasmin Alibhai Brown who hate them, possibly because they are aware more than we are of the subliminal message they put out there. Lets not forget that the Afghan type, one poster referred to affords the wearer no peripheral vision, so they really need a physical guide, thus rendering them fully dependent. So those who criticise western women for their disapproval of the garment, what would you say to Muslim women who see them as some sort of shackle. A shackle any of us would have placed on us if we chose to be an expatriate in say Saudi. I believe the abaya is still mandatory there if a western woman wants to leave the compound where they live.

My neighbour is Persian and from time to time returns to Iran and is forced to wear the headscarf, hates it, but knows full well it's just something that has to done, Iran is full of young women who wear that scarf as far down the back of the head as possible and I doubt whether they would fully understand the choice some women make here to wear a burka of their own volition, but I guess it's human nature to want what is forbidden and that works both ways sometimes.

There's part of me that sympathises with the patriarchy that exists in pretty much all religions. We were a catholic family and when I was growing up females had to cover their heads in church, I never really grasped why, my mother, as indeed her contemporaries, wore these mantilla lace things in church, I guess it could have been called "forced cover up lite". It never extended to out of doors though and it's all gone out the window now anyway.

I also remember being at my convent school when one of the girls who hailed from southern Italy had a member of her extended family die and she was expected to wear black for possibly 12 months. The nuns were seething, presented with such a cultural dilemma that they really couldn't do anything about. Their palpable anger came to the fore almost weekly when they asked said pupil when she was going to get back into full school uniform, naice boater, white gloves and all, and out of the black. "Not yet" came the reply, it was indeed amusing to watch it play out but it did illustrate to me how subscribers to the same faith could nevertheless have cultural differences and some of those differences deep rooted and pertaining to another country. They, the nuns, did point out to her "this is not how we do things here" well you could get away with that then, but happily water on a duck's back, she continued happily in her black dress, sadly not the actual "little black dress" that we all love, and we continued to be entertained by their ongoing exasperation.

It does occur to me that we must be well down the road to "la la land" when such an inane justifications for facial coverings well beekeepers and welders wear them too! In the words of John McEnroe "you cannot be serious" I've never seen a bee keeper/welder with full face cover out on my high street, I won't say never cos who knows some dickhead avant garde fashion designer might put them out on the catwalk anytime soon and as a consequence they could become de rigueur . Anyway will know if VB is photographed tripping along in one, with her eyes glued to ground but looking a treat in her beekeeper's hat on grin can't wait!

Lessismore Fri 02-Aug-19 14:28:33

They are forcing their customs on us simply by walking down OUR streets

Who is this OUR and They?

British women wear the Burqa.