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Niqab/burqa ban in Netherlands

(271 Posts)
Newquay Thu 01-Aug-19 19:27:45

Just seen above on news/FB. I met a friend for a canal walk finishing up in lovely cafe. Was startled to see 3 young women covered head to to toe including face in dark grey. They had a young man (husband?) with them and several young children. It made for an uncomfortable atmosphere.

Lessismore Thu 01-Aug-19 19:36:05

Do you live in the Netherlands?

lemongrove Thu 01-Aug-19 19:39:58

Being totally covered up is not a religious ‘need’ but is cutural, certain Muslim countries go in for it.If they are tourists ( from those countries) visiting the West, that’s one thing, if they are living in a Western country, then they have to abide by that country’s dress codes.
Women can’t fully take part in anything totally covered up and in certain situations it should be banned IMHO.

petra Thu 01-Aug-19 20:16:14

I still haven't worked out my feelings as to what I saw in the Gynaecology dept at my local hospital.
I was in the waiting room and a couple came in.
She was wearing the blue completely covered including face that the Afghan women wear.
He was also dressed in Afghan style.
I had many feelings that day but the over riding one was of sadness: she must have been terrified.
Added to the fact that her husband went into the consulting room with her.

Lessismore Thu 01-Aug-19 20:27:58

Or, they could have been newly arrived, and afraid.

You could have smiled and said hello.

paddyann Thu 01-Aug-19 20:41:25

why would she have been terrified? She was there for an appointment with her husband/partner for support .What she or he was wearing isn't relevant .
I see the gynaecologist on a regular basis .many young men go into consultations with their wives..not just men in Afghani clothes whatever they are .My last appointment there was a chinese couple and several local couples that I've known /seen around the town for years

paddyann Thu 01-Aug-19 20:43:53

Newquay surely to dont believe everyone who dresses differently from you is a terrorist? Thats plain ridiculous.
This type of subconcious racism is shocking !

Barmeyoldbat Thu 01-Aug-19 21:05:31

Why was it uncomfortable for you? Could you not as Paddyann suggested just smiled and nodded in acknowlement. I don't agree in the covering up but underneath they are human beings and I see no reason to fear them.

NotSpaghetti Thu 01-Aug-19 21:24:36

But Newquay, how lovely to see them out and about enjoying the countryside and the tea shop.

EllanVannin Thu 01-Aug-19 21:27:32

The Netherlands can't ban it.

Gonegirl Thu 01-Aug-19 21:36:27

Wouldn't have been uncomfortable for me. Why would it? I would have felt sorry for the women, but that's all.

Gonegirl Thu 01-Aug-19 21:39:57

Bit patronising there NotSpaghetti.

Jane10 Thu 01-Aug-19 22:12:20

The Netherlands can ban it.

lemongrove Thu 01-Aug-19 23:28:14

Of course it can, if it wants to.Hasn’t France already banned it?

Scentia Fri 02-Aug-19 06:00:41

What an odd thread, what have any of the posts got to do with the title of the thread. I am sensing some rather uneducated and racist comments here. Newquay, what is the point of your thread?

RosieLeah Fri 02-Aug-19 06:38:18

I think the point,Scentia is that, in the West, we do not cover our faces unless we are intent on criminal activity. Therefore we feel uncomfortable around people who DO have their faces covered.

Scentia Fri 02-Aug-19 06:49:16

Well, how strange. I don’t think it is anyone’s business how someone dresses or how they look, to be so concerned about this suggests you have too much time on your hands. To be so worried about such things will do you no good at all.

ILE35 Fri 02-Aug-19 06:51:59

I would have felt really uncomfortable too.

I don't think it is right anyone can go around covered from head to foot, especially nowadays.

You just never know who is hiding behind there!

absent Fri 02-Aug-19 07:07:12

Are there rules in the Netherlands about how women dress apart from this one on the niqab and burqa? Of course not. It is not for any governments to decide what women may or may not wear. There may be occasions when it is important for a woman's face to be exposed for reasons of safety, security or something else, but otherwise, if she chooses to keep her face covered, that is her choice.

To suggest that people from another country, whether immigrants or tourists, should abide by a vague dress code, is racist in the extreme. Did Brits wear saris in colonial India? I don't think so.

Riverwalk Fri 02-Aug-19 07:52:15

They might be better to ban the barely-dressed sex workers in the Red Light district of Amsterdam. How shameful is that to have as a major tourist attraction.

This is what I would call an uncomfortable atmosphere, not three women minding their own business who came into view.

Granny23 Fri 02-Aug-19 07:53:52

Some of these remarks are Racist. I admit to finding anyone with their face completely covered a bit unnerving. For instance, recently, when in the supermarket car park, a man in full biker gear leapt up behind me and grabbed my shopping bags. I was somewhat alarmed until he spoke and I recognised the voice of one of my DD's friends, gallantly assisting an elderly friend to load heavy shopping into the boot. I asked him 'Are you in there Bob? and he immediately removed his helmet and goggles and apologised for giving me a fright.

I still remember the film about Ned Kelly, which gave me nightmares, with Ned in his home made 'helmet' with only a slit for his eyes. I suppose therefore that there is an inbuilt human reaction of distrust to fellow humans whose faces we cannot see.

On the other hand, there has never been a fuss or campaign against people covering their faces e.g welders, beekeepers, people with disfigurements or sunlight allergies, brides, wearers of veiled hats etc, which IMO makes the current fuss about Niqab/burqa wearers undoubtedly racist.

Yorksherlass Fri 02-Aug-19 08:02:18

Did any see the lovely girl who yesterday won a horse race at Newbury and she was wearing a hijab , good on her .

Peonyrose Fri 02-Aug-19 08:28:04

I would like them banned, I hope we go the Netherlands way, It is the ridiculous control the men exert over their women, with more education they will eventually rebel. It us cultural not religeous. Who would go around covered in black with a visor in 100 degree temperatures ? It is inhuman. We want to look into someone's face, read expressions, interact That is why everyone dreads going blind. I doubt anyone has given birth in a bee keepers visor, welder, welding visor or a gas mask. The men should wait outside whilst females are being examined, there is always a nurse present, she will be quire safe for 5 minutes.

Day6 Fri 02-Aug-19 08:34:44

I don’t think it is anyone’s business how someone dresses or how they look

Normally, no it's not.

However, we do NOT cover our bodies from head to toe in the west, covering the face as well. We use our faces, our smiles, our expressions for communication. Not only that, a covered face is a disguise. We would not allow people to walk into certain establishments wearing masks or balaclavas so we need to be just as strict about a cultural form of dress which we do not recognise.

It's NOT Islamophobic (sigh) or anything else to require people who live alongside us to be aware of cultural norms. We should not make exceptions or tread on eggshells so not to offend.

I have Muslim ex colleages from the middle east/Asia and it is true to say they are educated and no longer accept any form of male control regarding their dress. They cover their heads with scarves as devout Muslims and agree that women wearing the niqab/burqa cause unnecessary concern, for many reasons.

It is NOT racist to question a form of dress which is not compulsory but which does offend the openness and face-to face contact that is the norm in the western world.

Here is an example of someone bending over backwards to insist any concern is racist.

We can turn the tables on people who sneer that others are racist because some people in theUK wear bee-keepers outfits or welding masks or wedding veils.

You are having a laugh, surely? Taking the P--- to say it's OK for bee-keepers or welders ! Unbelievable that you cannot discern between temporary work-wear and a person dressed in back from head to foot who cannot be identified and who peers out at the world through a slit in black cloth because her body is something we should not look at.

It's a patriarchal, antiquated custom which belittles women and has no place in 2019, especially in a liberated western society. If anything, we should fight the custom and form of subjugation in helping our anonymous, covered-up sisters to exist in their own right.

Talk about clutching at straws and being extremely keen to brand natural concern and fear (that we have no idea who walks amongst us covered from head to foot) as 'racist'.

I call out those who are so keen to label people 'racist' and Islamophobic when in truth we SHOULD be concerned. This labelling is a trend we have to guard against.

lemongrove Fri 02-Aug-19 08:42:32

Brilliant post Day6 👍🏻