Niqab/burqa ban in Netherlands

Phew! What a lot of posts this provoked-shows it’s a difficult subject. I agree with Iam64-we’ve fought long and hard here for women to be treated well. IMHO women going about covered head to foot and especially face covered is not acceptable. In these troubled times folk cannot wear clothing that can conceal things be it shoplifting or more dangerous items.

Yes Paul spoke of covering your head in Corinthians but as he was a Jew the Old Testament teachings would have been how he had lived his life.

Paul talked about covering your head in Corinthians I think.
I was at an Eil-Adha festival (think thats it ) today.
Some of the traditional clothes were so colourful and pretty. No ladies completely covered. I imagine those strict families do not attend the festival but I may be wrong .
I saw some very young girls 3-4 years with their head covered, and although they had pretty dresses, they had their legs and arms totally covered.
I feel sorry for them in hot weather having to dress like this, while muslim boys and other children can run around in light shorts and tops and enjoy the benefit of the sunshine.

In an area where I shop, there are people of every ethnicity and I assume, religion. Covered women, men in robes, western dress, head scarves, East Asian, Indian, Pakistani. I love it. Inclusiveness. The primary school there brings tears to my eyes at lunchtimes if I'm feeling overly sentimental. Each to their own.

I taught a Muslim girl (choose not to wear a headscarf) a few years ago who gave our otherwise white British class a talk about the racism her sister faced for covering her hair. It moved the whole class to applause.

Thank you Fennel,

Yes and no Iam ?
The news reported that the cruise ship owners are concerned about the all inclusive drinks causing trouble ( some always spoil it for others of course.)
Probably better all round not to have the all inclusive when it comes to alchohol, apart from anything else, think of all the stairs on a ship.?

You're right Annie. Numbers 5, the Sotah.

Orthodox Jewish women would not cover their hair because of Paul’s teachings . Covering of hair is spoken of in the Old
Testament , I think ‘Numbers’.

And Paul (Saul) was a Jew as was Christ.

lemongrove - I suspect it isn't the all inclusive drinks on those cruises that lead to anti social violent behaviour. It's the ignoramuses who think because alcohol is 'free' and available 24 hours a day, they have to drink it till they lose whatever little sense of reason they had to begin with

There is nothing 'Muslim' about wearing a face cover- at all. I have many family and friends who are practising Muslims, many have done the Hadj - NONE wear a Burka or Nicab- ever.

Modest clothing and head cover should always be allowed- but not face/eye cover. And no religious schools either- be they CofE, Jewish, Muslim or whatever.

The problem is that in most religions women are seen as being temptresses, when they aren't being seen as Madonnas of course. Rather than men police themselves and behave decently, they try to control women and what they do, or say and also what they wear. So women who behave ' modestly ' are the ideal , women who step out of line are thought to be 'no better than she ought to be', 'immodest', tarts, prostitutes and generally all round bad sorts. Sadly some women also subscribe to this view.
I don't care what religion people follow, I think it's all completely nuts anyway,and all religions have been started by men as far as I am concerned. What I really object to the idea that men have about controlling women, which they do all too often. there are too many women in the world who aren't allowed to step out of line, and women in some very conservative countries are treated appallingly.

I think that the problem in the UK is that we have some very conservative people who are happy to live here because in general we don't have many rules about how we dress and act. We don't ban any religion and are happy to bend over backwards to assist people in the practice of their religion.What then happens is that those people become fearful that their children are going to become like the typical white British person who really doesn't give two hoots , and that is when problems arise. Parents start to insist on a certain way of dress, their children can't marry who they like and are strictly controlled in lots of other ways. In essence the ways of life of the groups are not compatible and all round misery ensues.

When I was young I knew Muslims who dressed in a very similar way to me, they went to the pub, drank alcohol, listened to rock music , had sex outside marriage etc. Now a huge number have reverted to a former time and ,quite frankly, I don't think that is for the better.

Going to mass as a child/teenager we girls ( not just women)
Had to wear a head covering.I always assumed it was so we didn’t drive the men mad with lust from gazing at our hair.
I regard all the dress and food taboos as quite potty ( in any religion.)

Iam64 it wasn’t just RC churches. My mother, a staunch Anglican, always covered her head if entering a church. I even remember her, when visiting a cathedral somewhere, in finding she had forgotten her scarf, plonking a handkerchief on her head!

The punch up on the cruise ship was because those who took part in it were drunk ( as usual).
Somebody did dress as a clown, somebody else said it wasn’t meant to be fancy dress ( was it black tie then??) and so on and so forth.The all inclusive drinks on these cruises are to blame for the level of staggering about shouting abuse at strangers ( apparently.)

When we were youngsters, women in Catholic churches always covered their hair. That tradition died out. I'd always learned St Paul was one of the first misogynists.
Orthodox Jewish women also cover their hair. In N.Manchester, its very common to see women wearing long, flowing wigs to cover their hair, rather than simple head scarves.

We were told it was because a womans hair is her crowning glory and covering it in gods house showed she was modest in the eyes of her maker...mind you as young RC's we believed a lot of tripe .I did have some lovely mantilla's though .Beautiful hand made lace ones

Tweedle24. I was taught that St Paul's head covering directive was brought in because slaves had shaven heads and covering would put everybody on an equal footing.

RosieLeah. On flights leaving places like Saudi Arabia the minute the seatbelt sign goes off the queue for the toilets is horrendous. When the ladies exit the toilets the Burkha has gone revealing some extremely lovely western outfits, many of them designer items.

If people choose to wear the burka, I do not see it is anyone else’s business. However, I do worry about the face being covered. Not only does it make me, and many others, feel uncomfortable, but it could so easily be used deliberately to hide identification.

Terribull I was told but, cannot find the source, that St Paul asked women in church to cover their hair as they were spending so much time admiring/criticising each other’s hairstyles that they were distracted from the sermons. Of course, they later went on to compete with each other’s hat choices,

If women aren't ' allowed ' out unless wearing a face covering then that, to my mind, constitutes coercive and controlling behaviour. I have met women who are definitely subject to that already in the matter of what is seen as acceptable dress by husbands and elders. and ,to me, is a good reason to ban niqab and burqa

Haven't read past first page but Day6 is spot on.
My only concern is that in banning them some ladies will not be allowed to go out.

Yes, Less I know what I said in reaction to how I felt about what you said. I don't understand why you call it an accusation. It was the way you made me feel. Just carry on if it makes you feel better, I will still feel the way your post made me feel. You can repeat it as often as you like but I cannot see why you would want to keep reiterating the way your post made me feel.

Sounds rather patronising to me, as if you think in some way they are inferior to you. In fact it comes across as racist

Let us be clear, I did not accuse you of anything. Perhaps if you are touchy about somethings you would feel better if you didn't go on threads about them? That is meant to be helpful, I avoid certain threads.

Ok Nonnie, over and out. I was hurt by your accusation of racism and also I am very touchy about weight issues. This is not a helpful place for me. Thanks.