Tolerant or Intolerant?

I think it is more to do with cultural divide Rose. Groupthink only reinforces opinions. I think what upsets people is that they see good manners, politeness, thoughtfulness, call it what you will, differently. We are a divided country and always have been but we now come into more contact than we once did.

Also, for some, the things that gave them high status within their own cultural group no longer exists so they are fighting to find both a place and blame.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

I think the issue is whether your view of intolerance is the only view of intolerance. I doubt that it ever is.

I think that there is already some intolerance being shown on this thread, which is sad. The OP made a legitimate point. If things start getting too heated I withdraw from the thread. I don’t particularly want to argue with posters who think their view is the only one allowed or the only one that’s correct.

Cliques and groups frequently operate in the same fashion: They do what they do under the guise of "the greater good" all while proselytizing - Any comments that don't fall into step are deemed disruptive or rude wrong by the collective-

Once established that the comments are disruptive or rude, they're diagnosed- The label is then applied, be it Them, Other, Bi-polar, Sad, Not One of Us- perfect people

P. S. I noticed that you asked on a thread the other day, *Bradford Lass*if there was a safety net for older women without pensions. Answer, not really, only a jump-through-hoops-really-youre-workshy one.

I think one half of the country are at the other's throats at the moment and that is reflected in social media. Plus its now become apparent that political and other public figures regularly receive death threats. People now feel entitled to be rude to whoever they like and that their opinion is as good as anyone else's.

I am amazed by some of the spats that go on on GN and despite vigorous denials, there are cliques and people who only respond to certain others. The latter means many posters, however reasonable, go unheard. Recently a poster asked someone to confirm that her/his post had been read as she was never responded to. I don't think anyone replied!!

So I'm with those who view the OP as a misguided attempt to separate out the nice from the not nice - othering -, people feel strongly and some can't resist being rude. Aren't all posters just a selection of people like any other set? There are a lot of US posters and other nationalities too, it's just people, sane or insane, who's to make the distinction?! . Oh and personally, I think many people don't actually bother to read the posts carefully.

The internet has encouraged this " Dutch Courage " that many have as I'm sure that some of what is said would never be said on a face to face situation. It's a coward's paradise !

BradfordLass72

Just read your post about broken legs and minds, I suppose we can all see someone has a broken leg, but cannot see into their broken mind.

Be respectful; play the ball, not the man. I cannot improve on what Elegran and Urmstongran have said.

C

Hmm! Lots of issues/ point of view aren't there? I think that sometimes it's all too easy to think that a poster is being rude because there is no tone of voice, so a message that can be meant kindly is thought of as being just the opposite. We also have different points of view or different experiences that naturally mean responses are different.
For example I often draw on my work experiences when answering any question . I found that often what I was being told by a customer and then had to investigate would be challenged by me after new information came to light. I am not saying the customer was lying ( although some were very economical with the truth!) but that perceptions of any situation were different. So yes, I do sometimes query what is going on or offer a different point of view.
I was , by the way, noted for my patience and negotiation skills at work ! Even so I did sometimes want to explode.
I think as long as we can be respectful then reasoned debate helps us all.

Hope that was ok for everyone?

Sorry Bradfordlass. Just to add yes I agree sometimes people may have MH problems but some may just be having a bad day!

Very good points Bradfordlass.

Nobody knows for sure what is behind people’s posts!

Main problem, imo, is other posters jumping in too quickly to responses to an original post. Being unable to edit doesn’t help! You may fire something off and then think “that isn’t exactly what I mean”. But.. it’s gone! Then there is “tone”. Some people will read comments completely differently to what is intended as there are no facial expressions or audible tone. They then take umbrage and before you know it the thread becomes heated with accusers and defenders. Everyone wants to be “right”.

Personally I keep posting but not sure if I actually like Gransnet. So not even sure what MY intentions are being here? I guess I hope some of my comments are useful? Perhaps not. I used to be on a forum years ago - no longer around. Now THAT did get heated but more in a debate kind of way. I liked it. What does that say about me?

I do know that as I’ve aged I have a heck of a lot more tolerance as have experienced life and realize that things (people) are not always as they seem! The deeper you dig the more you discover.

Anyway bit ‘deep’ for a bright Sunday morning. Happy Sunday everyone.

Of course, there is no way of knowing what the people on the receiving end of cutting, nasty comments might be going through, either.

I well remember being told I must have a very sad life by the forum equivalent of a tag team.. I wasn't being contentious; it wasn't a politics thread.

They were right, my life was unbearably sad at the time..

take a moment to consider whether the reply is against the opinion or against the poster
Precisely Elegran.

It's nothing at to do with stopping a diversity of opinion, that, in fact, is the most interesting part of the forum.

It's about understanding why people are needlessly nasty and hurtful.

And the original post came from two situations.

First: in my elders group, those with dementia and who have survived strokes are often forgetful and argumentative and are roundly condemned by many. It caused a real kerfuffle just recently and it set me thinking.

We wouldn't condemn someone with a broken leg for not running, so why do we blame people who cannot think clearly or rationally? As these elders cannot.

And the second prong of the pitchfork was the thought that whilst I didn't condemn the elders whom I know and love, I had certainly done so here and in the terms described in the OP. And regret doing so.

At first I wrote a, 'let's all be forgiving and understanding' post and it sounded sanctimonious. Then a flippan one but this isn't really a flippant subject.

So what you got is a reflection of some of the things said, either in the forum or PMs by me and others.
I didn't expect it to please everyone

The essence of it is still, 'we don't know what people are going through which makes them act like this, so please have a little understanding'.

But the reaction to that is yours to choose - and long may it be so.

I read Urmstongran comment as a suggestion rather than an instruction ‘telling others what to do’. The question mark rather indicated that, in my opinion of course!

Oh, I am with UG, let's keep it polite, and I have said so many times on many threads. There is no need to carry the attack to the poster to make a valid point. In fact, doing so is tantamount to admitting defeat.

Let’s just keep it polite eh?

How disappointing UG. Still someone who feels the need to tell others what to do.

Seems like a good move when people set out deliberately to inflame a situation that seems at the moment to be reasonably calm on the forum, MamaCaz.

I can't say I would get excited about crocheting around leaves - although I do enjoy crochet in general. I'm hoping to find time to do some Christmas decorations - ITh gingers probably - on my embroidery machine but I need to make elf on a shelf jumpers first as they have to go to Australia. I then need to think of some items to make to add to the Night Before Christmas bag I sent last year. At some point I want to play with the overlocker I got for my birthday last week and keep finishing the UFOs in the list I set myself at the beginning of the year although I have managed to finish the quilt top I started in 2014! Just the quilting to do now. That was all hand embroidered so a nice change. Then there is the "do I have a party on Christmas Eve" question?, and the "will I be in this house" question (it's on the market).

It's not going off topic that's the issue MamaCaz it's the "C" word that sets my mind racing - but in a good way.

Good response Elegran I agree it’s always preferable to play the ball, not the man.

We can debate politely and then I usually say ‘we will have to agree to disagree’ which is what I (very occasionally thankfully) have learned to say in RL.

We all have an opinion. Each is valid and personal. GN threads would be pretty bland if we all felt the same!

Let’s just keep it polite eh?

That's a useful expansion of a previous point, imo.

Baggs
I love a 'crafty' challenge - I might have to try that one! I'm thinking of C decorations, with some holly leaves crocheted around in silver or gold thread, .

Sorry for the deviation from the OP, folks.

Now, now Baggs

I don't know anything about sewing seeds but I do follow someone on Twitter who, amazingly, crochets into and around leaves. I'd love to know how she does it without tearing them.