What to Do For The Best??

I agree with the poster who suggests she may have self-esteem problems and craves male approval, but she also needs to stand on her own two feet and deal with the messes she gets into herself.

You say We have supported her from day one in everything she does and continue to support her as wholeheartedly as we can. We have loaned money, helped her to move numerous times, purchase anything the boys need, bail her out when she’s in trouble

Has it occurred to you that by doing this you are actually enabling her behaviour? She knows that no matter what kind of mess she is in, you will sort it out and she can continue as she chooses.

There are times when the best love is tough love, and this is what she needs. Of course you must make sure that your DGS are properly clothed and fed, but otherwise leave her to sort her own problems out. Let her face the problems that result from her careless behaviour. Leave the boys with her at weekends. Perhaps see them on a weekday evening (until their bed time) instead. If nothing else that will limit the time she can spend socialising and leading a promiscuous. life. Do no babysitting. Let her find her own babysitters unless she is going to use the evening for a useful purpose like further education classes. If she gets into debt or doesn't pay the rent, let her sort it out herself. You do not say whether she is working or not, perhaps she should be considering whether that is possible.

3nanny6 - I’m sorry it has come to this point for you but if it matters I think you have made the right decision.

Nannamilly1, our children live their own lives, not always as we hoped they would. There are lot of single parents these days so it's not at all unusual.

We have a (seriously outdated) benefit system that assumes a male partner, if they cohabit, will support an entire family. (I think it's frankly ridiculous that a man should be expected to financially support a woman and her children from previous relationships.)

This situation works as a strong disincentive for cohabitation or marriage and it's such a shame. Children benefit from having secure, reliable adults at home. It's a challenge for just one person.

I don't see why your daughter should rely so much on her parents, though. As a grown woman, she should strive to be independent and look after her children as best she can. Maybe you are a little too helpful and she has become used to it?

Apologies..Nannymilly1....l wrongly put in my last post that you looked after the grandchildren full time...l got distracted and then came back to your post. You are still an Angel .....helping your daughter all you can . You have had some very good posters on here and some caring advice from the heart .Ignore all the negative and judgmental ones.

If she wants to keep the child you are only left with supporting her. I would not though, support her financially it is not helping her or you. Food if needed occasionally yes, money for debts no, money for going out no.

And aninimous possibly is a psychology student of some sort??

2 Nannan
Thank-you for kind message and I hear what your saying and of course I would like nothing better to see the grand-children over the Christmas I have got most of the presents and everything ready fir them.
The thing is I am not even angry with her I am more stunned and hurt and by being told get out of my house why do I want you here is just like another nail in the coffin.
What also hurt was her saying she did not want me there when the girls came out of school which would have been in about half an hour and that was the killer for me, after all I had bought all the dinner for them (although this is not about money) So not only being told get out of the house but also she did not want me to see the grand-children is not
something I will be doing again my door is always open to her if she wants to come to me but like I say that was the final straw.

And Ananimous,??you have no reasons to believe what you have said about op is true? ,about their past i mean? Youre being totally harsh and judemental,and just completely mean.the op is trying to be supportive & caring,but seem a bit out of their depth.but i think if they try see both sides of everything they will be more helpful.Good luck to you all.try to have a nicer christmas.with your families.

Male father abandonment issues probably explain a lot of the problems here

I am not judging you I was just making a suggestion. Your daughter having mental health issues is completely different and I’m sorry for your difficulties.

I am clouded about mother/daughter relationships as mine has left a bitter taste in my mouth but my relationship with my children has made me understand what being a mother is about. I am fine mentally as I’m quite strong but I just always wish things had been different and am constantly disappointed at the lack of maternal love my mum has.

I agree you shouldn’t have to put up with abuse from your daughter. It is a shame to walk away though, esp with your GC.

I hope you can one day resolve things with your daughter.

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate you all taking the time to consider my dilemma and offer your input.

In response to some of your replies I can assure you that she has not been raised with these values. Her father and I separated when she was very young (2 years old) but she has always maintained contact with him. He’s not been a great dad and never contributed financially but I never allowed this to sway my decisions in allowing him to see his children. When she was 8 I met my dh and he has been a fantastic stepfather and role model and I know she considers him as a father too. I have always worked and studied hard at uni and passed these values on to our children and been very open about sex and contraception and in particular spent an awful lot of time talking to the girls about respecting themselves and their bodies and they always knew they could talk to me. All of our children have a very strong work ethic and never ask for anything except for my daughter which remains somewhat of a mystery to me.

I have tried to get her to do counselling before, and strangely she is at college studying counselling at the moment. She is very bright academically but doesn’t seem able to manage her life in a practical sense.

I will continue to support her whatever her choice regarding her latest dilemma and my grandchildren will always be at the centre of my heart too.

Thank you all.

Thank you,Davida1968,i try to see things from all sides,it really is difficult for all concerned for these situations,but i hope they can all accept what their daughters wishes are,yet still find a way to support them going forward.

This is text book inter-generational family dysfunction.
You will have suffered either emotional, sexual or physical abuse during your childhood, which will cause you to seek approval and people-please. The daughter has been programmed by you, and also your husband (Is he as absent in real life as he is in your post?)
Therefore, yes, you are resposible for her patterns, as your parents are, and their parents etc. Don't beat yourself up about it - just head over to youtube and research thoroughly CPTSD Athena Moberg, Richard Grannon, Narc survivor, narcology unscripted, Daniel Mackler, Alice Miller etc) and you will see why and how you got to this point, and what to do next.
You are an enabler, and too involved in your daughter's decisions. Are you going to stop and set a boundary at 2, 3, 4, 5, -10 children?
You and your husband both need to research childhood emotional abuse.
When we know better, we can do better.
It's not about blame, it's about growing into something more healthy. Good luck - things will improve, if you do.

It’s difficult to advise what to do for the best Nannamilly1 but in the current situation with your Daughter’s pregnancy, I would have to say that the decision of whether or not to terminate has to be totally her decision and you should not influence her in any way, nor “guilt trip” her, if indeed she does decide on terminating.
I would try to advise her on safer contraception, as others have advise possibly the implant.
As far as her going out and being attracted to older men, perhaps she is looking for security, in some way, from them. If her promiscuity upsets you, ask her not to divulge too many details to you.
Basically, all you can do is continue looking after the two boys and supporting your daughter the best you can.
She will hopefully grow up eventually and she is still very young at 22 so I can understand her wanting to have a bit of freedom and fun, when she can.
As long as she is more careful with contraception and not leading herself into danger.
Best of luck with it all.

3nanny6- i feel for you too,as you were only trying to do what you saw as 'best' for your GC..but,i would hesitate to say you wont go round there again,as that is just 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' as my late mum used to say,and if your daughter just said get out,but DID NOT say never come round again,then thats what you are doing.plus,its nearly christmas,its your daughter,& grandchildren,how can you not want to go be there for them at christmas,or 'holiday season', i know youre angry right now,but its time to see how she sees things? You have made her angry too, and she may see your actions as 'disrespectful' of you,towards her & her wishes? Maybe she does want to decorate for christmas,but do it nearer the time,WITH HER OWN KIDS,HERSELF?? So,give it a few days,let the dust settle,try go visit,with maybe just presents& cards for her& the GC,before christmas,just have a cuppa,,& a 'normal' chat with her,enjoy seeing the kids.but DONT try to clean up,or decorate,or anything else.See how it goes.but please dont cut yourself off from them,especially at this time of year.

Just to say that I agree with Nannan2, who has put (very well) into words, just what I am thinking.

.Maddy 68
The family you mention are really extreme. . . probably as far removed from the ops as they are yours. l would be insulted if l were her. She has not mentioned mental health problems at all..l have two daughters and l know how difficult it can be. op is a great mum and grandma .l know l wouldn't have wanted to be looking after 2 grandchildren full time at age 46. She is an angel.

SB74 Thank-you for the post. I think I read in an earlier post you made to Nannamilly that your younger sister fell pregnant at a young age and you yourself were only young. From that post you also say your mother gave the family no support and wanted your sister to terminate or maybe have the baby adopted. It was a good outcome that your sister had her baby and things worked out well.

I t seems to me that you had a difficult time and your own mother was not very maternal and it seems this is colouring your views when someone mentions about having to walk away from family. I just wonder if you had any counselling for that because perhaps you have carried that around with you for a long time.

You say that someone should stick by family despite any issues particularly if it is your children.
You possibly could not begin to understand how hard it is for me personally to walk away especially from three amazing beautiful grand-children who happen do be in the middle of this.
I thought I should mention that yes there is mental health issues on my daughters side but that does not mean she can be completely abusive to me as their must be boundaries somewhere.
One more thing there is a six year old and a two year old and in between those two children my daughter had two terminations totally her own choice, one I knew about the other she did not tell me until later. As I am a practicing Roman Catholic I pleaded with her not to terminate the baby and to go ahead with the pregnancy but she went ahead and terminated the pregnancy any way and then another one which I did not know until later. Then of course she became pregnant again and kept that one.
Like I firstly posted I still supported her but I cannot take her disrespect any longer and who knows if or even when will she fall pregnant again and she is on self destruct button and it seems I can no longer help her this is why I said please do not judge me, I have done so much for her.

I agree with JuicyLucy. Plus you need to assess your own needs (and those of your husband) now and the future. You have done so much for her yet she doesn't seem to have any incentive to get her act together. I think the time has come for tough love and plain speaking. Your health cannot sustain running your own business, bringing up her children, supporting her financially, running your own home and having a meaningful marriage of your own - something will have to give and it will be your health, your income, your retirement. She needs to grow up and fast. She's not the first young mum nor will she be the last but she needs to woman up, she's made some poor choices but she cannot use them as excuses for the rest of her life. The bank of mum & dad needs to close - you have been a soft touch and she's confident you will always indulge her. You love her no one could dispute that but time for reality now.

If she feels she wants a termination presumably she has thought this through and has decided this is whats best for her,and her 2boys,so please dont dissuade her just for your own reasons,she seems to be sensible where her sons are concerned,and im sure you can be certain that if this is the conclusion she has reached its not a good idea to make her do what you want,rather than what she has chosen.If she has another child,just to please you,it will be 'unwanted' as far as she is concerned,she may well resent it,and then you may have to take the child on permanently.This may be the 'wake up call' she has needed so long.so she may have the termination and start to see sense,start to put it all behind her& pull her life together again.? She loves her boys,but yes she had them young,she still is,so she may have been 'catching up' with what her friends were doing,drinking,clubbing,dating,etc when she was changing nappies.Have you discussed all this with her? About how her life will be once shes had a termination? Its not something a woman does lightly,no matter what their age,so it may sober up her ideas of how shes been behaving?maybe you should babysit a bit less too,thus not freeing her up to go out gallivanting etc.But please dont deter her if this is the descision shes made,its not your pregnancy,its hers,you wouldnt want to make her do something she really doesnt want,& then make her resentful,maybe wanting to 'get away' even more.Is that how shes had 2 young children at that young age already,did you 'persuade' her it was right thing to have/ keep them? Which is why she lets you have them to look after a lot of the time?she loves the children she already has,she cares for them,please dont force her to do what shes showed she doesnt want just because its your way.

FC61
I do hope that you are not suggesting that the "coincidence" between your friends two terminations and her subsequent death from breast cancer are in someway linked to some sort of Karma visited upon her. It must have been terribly sad for you and her other friends to have lost someone so young.

I would like to share a cautionary tale of one of my neighbors who had a child out of wedlock late in life and raised this daughter up to be a very spoiled ticking time bomb. The girl had mental illness and the Mother felt guilty for raising her without a Father perhaps so she never held the girl accountable for anything and by the time the daughter became a teenager she was totally out of control and began to have one baby after another. The Mother tried her best to continue to help her and get her help but instead of being grateful, the daughter began to be physically abusive to her Mother! The Mother lost her house after going into debt to help her daughter, and had to move into a rental with the daughter and the three grandkids where she stuck it out caring for them and babysitting for the daughter to flit about doing nothing and not working until finally the Mother died of cancer. It was only then that the daughter began to go to church, work steady and accept responsibility for her children but of course by then it was too late for the poor Mom!

My own daughter (who was friends with this family) and I talked about this situation. Even though there are issues with both of us, my daughter told me that she would never do that to me because she knows I wouldn't put up with it. She expressed sadness for the Mother and said that the Mother just let the daughter get away with it and do whatever she wanted to the point where the Mother would hide in her room and eat crackers and tuna cans while the daughter was home. My daughter said the Mother shouldn't have let treat her that way even if she did have mental problems, which eventually she was diagnosed as having. Hang in there and get help and support for all of you please, mental illness is very difficult to deal with and it sounds like there are multiple dynamics going. Good luck!!!!

3nanny6,

No family is perfect. That’s the point though. You stick by them despite the issues because they’re your family, even more so your children.

I don’t know the background of your life of course I don’t but there are always two sides to a story. I know that my mum would probably share a very convincing story about me being a difficult daughter where in actual fact it was her unloving and nasty attitude that has caused me to feel resentment towards her. I was very strong headed and strong willed and I would not allow her to bully my dad or push her selfish ways on everyone. My mum was a terrible mum and grandparent but she can’t see it. So there are always two sides and if someone has such anger towards you and, there are no mental health issues, then you have to ask why? I’m not suggesting there’s any fault on your side as I couldn’t possibly know but one persons view is often very different to another’s in these situations.

This is a really odd one for me. I do feel for you with this situation and I'm absolutely not judging either the mother or the daughter...

Just offering a few thoughts from the place that I am in, which is an older mother with a teenage DD. I was married but split with my ex - moved far away. I noticed that when I became a mother (even though I was by then 40) certain people in my birth family viewed me somehow as 'irresponsible' in my choices. So I distanced myself from most of them.

Nearly ten years later, my DD is doing really well. I think that we all have our own way of mothering and that it can be really hard to accept someone who is doing it differently from what we might expect or understand as 'good mothering'.

It sounds like your DD does love her kids. All you can do really is look after yourself in this and try to fathom what your own needs are, and be honest about it. I know this is easier said than done. All best pttr

SB 74 I totally will not take your comment personally as I use this wonderful website to help me deal with my problems regarding my daughter and believe me their have been many so please do not judge me as you have no idea of my situation and I only answered Nanna milly from my experience.

I do wonder have you been in the position of something like this with your own children? If so then please comment
but unless you have walked in my shoes then really you know nothing.
Have I ever insulted my daughter the answer is no even when she throws abuse at me I do not retaliate but as I said in my first post to be told Get out of my House is the final straw and yes I am walking away because she told me to and that is what tough love is about.
Have you had the perfect life with your children? you are lucky if you have.