sons and their wives

Not much detail there Lavazzalst so we can only guess your situation. There's always a kind of barrier between the wife and the mother - however super friendly the two women are. I didn't care for my MIL (she was a cow from the start) and when DSon married I determined to be friendly and non-interfering towards my DIL.
Having watched Harry and Meghan I've seen how a son can be turned away from his mother (though in that case its Her Maj). I wouldn't blame your ex, rather look to your DIL's behaviour because I think your son is trying to prove to her that he is not influenced by you, and that he is not under your thumb.
He's gone over the top by the sound of things and has hurt you dreadfully.
I don't think he's followed his father's misogyny, I think its nurture that's the culprit but not by you - by his wife.

PLEASE don't trot out that ridiculous saying about a son only being your son until he marries!!!!

There is an Old ( hence the wording) saying that says:

When you have a daughter you have a daughter for life, but if you have a son you only have a son until he takes a wife.

In answer to your question, with out knowing someone’s family dynamics it is not possible to pass an opinion on the right & wrongs of the situation, but best wishes to you , hopefully things will improve .

Good grief!!! How is it the DiL’s fault??
lavazza I don’t know why your son was abusive to you.

But casting blame is never a good idea in any situation. It just makes you the victim and powerless to change anything.

there is not much detail, so it's hard to comment.
sorry you have gone through this, it must be distressing.
what was your relationship with your son like while he was younger, before his wife.
is he normally abusive/ rude in his speech.
did this happen in front of the wife, if so, what was her attitude.
there does often seem to be tension or lack of closeness between mothers and sons with wives.

Yes bridgeit that is the hackneyed old phrase that's dragged out every time the subject of DiL's crops up here. Banal, meaningless and largely untrue!!
Sorry about your situation OP but only you and your son can sort this out!

Lavazza was it you that posted about the Chinese daughter in law a while ago? If it was, I seem to remember you did have quite a few problems when they moved in with you.

I dont understand this determination to make every DIL an enemy.Weren't you all DIL ? Did you all force your husbands to be obnoxious to their mother and it s eems its always the MIL never the FIL who has the issues.

For the record I love my MIL to bits ,she says I'm a daughter to her ,I love my DIL we get on great .I see my son most days he calls me every day or mshgs me.DIL doesn't think there are ulterior motives she understands we've always been a close family .

I have to wonder if some women bring this on themsleves ,sons ,like daughters grow up and make their own lives and we as mothers must accept that ...its how life works .I would be delighted if my AD didn't need me as much as she does,it would mean she was fit and healthy and able to cope .Be happy for your son and DIL and let them go

Weren't WE all DILs ?

I loved the exes mother, she was lovely and very kind to me . Obviously she took a step back when I left him. DS isn't in a relationship, but if he was I hope would try to be a good MIL. My DD has a great relationship with her MIL

It's not ok to make women responsible for mens poor behaviour.

Thanks for the messages. DS has had bouts of mental health issues and has been aggressive to family before. I've been used to the odd trying times with him, but he seems to be worse now his wife is here. It's the first time they've stayed with us.

Dil is making a lot of effort and seems apologetic. I heard that he fell out with her family too. Apparently some of her family beat him up. I know he's my son, but he is really pushing it. He has sent my husband challenging emails as well...

I honestly don't blame DIL. She seems nice and we've even cooked together. By the way, he refused to eat the meal we both cooked! That night he cooked his own dinner. I think possibly he wants us to not get along, which is sad and awkward.

@Phoenix, that was another of my DS's with the Chinese wife- who is now estranged from us. I am trying not to have another estrangement...

I was wondering if it was a thing that boys did because my eldest treated me badly in front of his wife first- but this DS was not in the country at the time, so has definitely not been influenced by his brother.

Their Dad is an abusive man and I have unfortunately seen abusive traits in both of them. I have done my best to bring them up and given them a stable home which we did not have with their Dad. Quite honestly, sometimes I feel like I wasted my time because they cause me so much pain. I feel like nurture was not good enough and that some of its genetic.

There's got to be two sides to a story.

Well, I dont know. I brought them up well, I thought. They seemed fine until they lived away from home- but they both got disrespectful to me in front of their partners so I am wondering why.

I have been friendly to both DIL, weve bought them loads of stuff, not interfered- I cook for them, havent asked them to do anything and have been just giving them space,

DS1 had MH issues and chose at the age of 17 to not involve us in his treatment, meaning we could not support him in an informed way. He also turned down family therapy.

DS2 has had far worse MH issues and was not offered family therapy as he refused to engage with adolescent MH services. We did the best we could, but obviously we have failed.

This family issue sounds so complex and like an iceberg, most of it is out of sight, that I am not prepared to make any comment about it whatsoever.

All I will say is in answer to the question: How normal is it for sons to verbally abuse/ shame their mother in front of their wife? Completely beyond the pale, whether in front of his wife or not. Neither my father, DH or DS have ever done anything like that, or come anywhere near it.

I had to ask because I would NEVER speak to my parents like that. At times I have felt like they favouritised etc but I would never have said so because I accept they did their best.

It does really hurt. Their Dad is still abusive to me, now. I dont have to see him much fortunately as he is very unstable and doesnt visit them for months/ years at a time.

Oh Lavazza1st I do feel for you. You really must wonder why you bothered with all three of them.
Has this daughter-in-law come from abroad as well? It sounds like she needs a friend in you x

Yes shes come from abroad and we only met her four weeks ago, She seems lovely and is finding my sons moods difficult as well. She hasnt said loads but I feel we are on a similar wavelength - but of course, he doesnt want us to get along. (not sure why but he could be ill and paranoid)

She did not know about his MH until a few days ago when he started shouting at me about his section a few years ago...

My youngest is lovely, no problems and hes single too- plenty of time for him to find someone. He does not remember growing up with his abusive Dad and I think he had a better childhood because his formative years were spent with his stepdad not his abusive dad - unlike the older two.
Thanks V3ra x

No, my brother is never abusive to my mum, whether in front of his wife or not.

good for your brother , LovelyCuppa

@Lavazza1st given that you say your son has MH issues and was at least witness to abuse as a child it may be some sort of PTSD type trigger being back in his childhood home (regardless of actual address he is back at home with his parent) and that is affecting his ability to process emotion so he is lashing out verbally? In no way does this excuse his behaviour, but if this is only occurring with you and in your home it would be a starting point for him to address with councillors or MH professionals.

I was good friends with my DiL well before the marriage and I'm still her friend now they're divorced. Same with my other son's partner - they have been together for 25 years and still are. Neither of my sons would dream of abusing me.