Over 70s

Maybe all the strident voices could remember the word 'compassion'. I telephoned a friend this week who overcame awful early life experiences by cultivating good friends and determinedly going out to be around other people. This friend has anti-depressants and a telephone and is not sure if they can survive 12 weeks with just their own thoughts for company. I also visited an extremely elderly relative in a care home who took my hand as I left and said 'you will keep coming to visit me, won't you, you're all I have'. I promised I would and then just a few days later lockdown happened. This relative's life could be measured in weeks rather than years, makes me cry every time I think about that promise. It's not a simple choice between going out = dying and staying in = living. It's also not old people/children/teenagers/delivery drivers who are spreading the virus. The virus spreads regardless, but it affects some more than others. People will die (was that the first phrase out of Boris Johnson's mouth when the press conferences started?), no doubt people will also die of other illnesses because they are afraid to go to hospital, maybe suicides will rise, maybe road accidents and work-related accidents will decrease. Who knows? This is a tragedy, but not seeing friends and family is also having a devastating effect. So please have a bit of compassion and empathy for others. It's about being alive, but it's also about having a life. My relative no doubt thinks I have deserted him. He can't understand these measures - he lived through WW2 and survived killer diseases such as measles and scarlet fever without the population once being told to stay at home. More virulent viruses and illnesses will develop and circulate the world and people will die of illnesses we already have that you wouldn't dream of staying indoors to avoid. Would I visit the care home now if they would let me in? Yes, right this minute. I missed my own DP's last days a long time ago because I was ill so didn't visit. I regret it still. Please try to walk in others' shoes, gently.

Eglantine there is no good trying to explain.
patriciageegee obviously knows little about scientific research and has grabbed the wrong end of the proverbial stick and is using it to beat you with (me too) for no apparent reason.

I don't understand why the over 70's would be putting others at risk if we choose to break an extended lockdown for us. Presumably, the rest of the population would already be out of lockdown and spreading the virus. I can see the argument about taking up NHS capacity but not about putting others in the community at risk.

I totally agree with you. We may die from something else while waiting.

I absolutely do not want to be locked up when restrictions are eased. As I've posted before, I have no underlying medical conditions, no medication, lower end of my weight range, walking several miles a day on my permitted exercise etc etc. Probably healthier than many people far younger than I am. I would rather take my chance. The scientists can't agree among themselves about the virus.

NO...its a horrendous prospect. I live on my own like a lot of you, in a flat without access to the locked down garden. I would rather take my chance …….and if there is testing EVER available for ordinary over 70s I would pay for it willingly so I could go out …...but if you think that is selfish …...we could still catch it from someone else. Personally I already have a DNAR notice on my medical records ...have had for years ….if I do live, and ever get a long term illness I am off to Dignitas …..personal preference for me ..

And don’t presume to lecture someone brought up in. a Jewish household about the evils of eugenics{

You attacking me because of my ethnicity? Why that’s almost as ludicrous an allegation as attacking someone because they postulate a scientific theory based on historical fact and current knowledge of the genetically engineered make up of a given nationality.

Where did I say that I approved of what had been state policy for many years.

But if you can come down off your high horse you will realise that because of that policy there is a very low rate of genetically inherited “underlying conditions’ in the Swedish population. Particully those born between the early fifties and the nineties, the former now entering what is considered a giunerabke age group.

Oh I don’t suppose there’s any use talking to you about Science and intellectual enquiry........

Please take that back eglantine I am not 'attacking' you because you are a member of the BAME community in any way, shape or form. I have total respect for ALL communities and I am not attacking anyone anyone. We had a strong difference of opinion and I made my views quite clear without having any clue as to your ethnicity. I had no wish to know that information and I will not have you accusing me in this way.

Many people are saying that they are fit and healthy, regardless of age. However, your immune system is less effective as you get older, therefore you are more likely to be seriously ill and die even if you don't have underlying health conditions. If you have a husband, you also have to bear in mind that that proportionally more men are killed by the virus than women, so consider his risk if you choose to stop isolating.

When the lockdown lifts, it is going to be a matter of individual choice. Do you want to risk it? No-one is going to lock you in your house. Personally, I dread being separated from my family for so long but I will do it, because I want a future with them. Sometimes I feel a sense of panic at the thought of months of separation, but I calm myself down by thinking that I am doing this now to give myself and DH a chance to see the kids grow up.

Obviously the virus hasn't gone away. The death rate is gradually decreasing because the lockdown is working, not because the virus is less. I think we need to give the scientists time to find an effective treatment, and not become collateral damage along the way.

Of course it’s not right patricia but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and could well have some bearing on results today No one here agrees with it you seem to be muddling that up just because someone writes down a fact it doesn’t mean they agree with that fact
I didn’t know that piece of history I do know Iceland have practically irradiated Downs by aborting babies that test for it
Another fact I don’t agree with before you jump up and down

As for ethnic differences to the virus there are so many variants Living conditions, living areas, jobs, Vitamin D deficiency, diabetics etc etc
Men seem to fare worse as they have lower immunity
Obese fare poorly
There are also question marks about whether it can be as simple as the amount of the virus you are exposed to, some people having it weakly could be down to them only picking up a few droplets while others may be picking up larger amounts from multiple people or multiple amounts from one person
I don’t know where this year comes from if they are waiting for a vaccine there is no guarantee they will find one that works or that the virus won’t mutate There are hundreds of permutations to this problem and it may be we have to chose between becoming a prisoner or taking a chance

And your scientific qualifications are......?

Actually I think it quite disgusting that you are attacking me because I am a member of the BAME community.

Thank you maddyone. Spoken at length to my friends other half today and we are going out for coffee in her memory.

Well scientifically there is. Eugenics is a crude, man made attempt to engender 'desirable' characteristics by selective reproduction and bears no resemblance whatsoever to cutting edge genetic coding available to science now.

No actually scientifically there isn’t.

We have to look at all the evidence and possibilities. You can’t ignore some of them because they offend you. It renders the results useless.

Indeed. And very complex.

It is possible that gene therapy will ultimately provide a medical solution to the Covid19 virus if we can unpick why some succumb and others are unaffected.

Read mine. There's a world of difference between considering possibly inherent susceptibilities in the genetic make up of the BAME community and the result of eugenics.

Eglantine I think a lot of research will take place in the future on why some ethnic groups, some blood types have responded differently towards the virus. Another factor is that men seem to succumb more than women.

There is a lot to research.

I have not assumed anything patriciageegee.

Read my posts.

I don’t understand why you would want to ignore what could be a significant factor in understanding the progress and outcomes of the virus.

Oh fgs patriciageegee your posts are quite uncalled for and offensive.

No-one is agreeing with the policies pursued by the Nazis and by Nordic countries, Sweden up until the mid 1970s.

Do you find the studies on why the BAME community have been particularly hard hit disgusting?

I am of that community and it is of great interest to me.

That's an assumption on your part callistemon and just because it's an historical fact doesn't make it morally right to include it on this thread.

Swedish chief medical experts are saying they are aiming for 'herd immunity' within weeks.

I’m sorry you think it’s disgusting. It is a fact that they vigorously pursued this policy and apologised for it later.

Is it the policy you find disgusting? In which case I agree.