Walking away with nothing

Lizzie10 when I read your post it was so apt to how I am at the moment. My partner told me I was moving in with him last christmas, then lockdown came and it seemed the sensible thing to do was 'move in' Three months on and 24hr a day together mostly happy but there are times I am so glad I still have my little apartment.

Your partner sounds a dream to think of your future and making sure you wont be homeless. My partner and I voluntered happily to sign a pre nup and the proviso is that if he goes before me I have twelve months to find somewhere else to live. My predicament is do I sell my place and hope for the best in the future? or do I keep it and know I will always have a roof over my head. My decision is to keep it and know I have that security becasue at 70yrs of age I really dont want to be looking for somewhere else to live on a limited budget. If I were you I wouldnt sign anything over because you too are entiteled to half of it with all the hard work you too have put in to it.

Wait until we are truly out of lockdown and reassess when your thinking is more clear.

I lived with my partner for 30 years and like a number of replies have said he left provision in his will for me to live in the house for as long as I wanted but it would be then inherited by his son. If you are in this situation please think about it. When my partner died the house was not a happy place to live. It wasn’t mine so I couldn’t make it like my own. I was really miserable like a lodger in the house I had lived in for so long. We were told that we may be liable for IT as his son hadn’t automatically inherited the house. In the end I saw a solicitor and signed a decree to relinquish my right to stay there. Many years ago I left my first husband and he stayed in the house we bought together. As he was looking after my sons at the time I let him keep the house so never had a penny from it.

All wonderful advice here but believe me you really need to look after yourself financially and not feel so guilty and intimidated? I was very naive and way to nice for my own good. but your feelings do change over time, especially when you have children to protect? Circumstances change very quickly and you never know what's around the next corner in this life? What do they say "Plan for the worst, but hope for the best?" Believe me my ex was quite the bully and he played very dirty when I wanted a divorce.
Just a thought but how would you feel if you signed your share over to your husband and walked a way and then he met someone else and moved them into your house, your daughter may move out?
A friend of mine let his ex have their beautiful mortgage free house, because she had their two young children and she didn't want him any more. He walked a way with nothing and she moved a new man in with her and the two children.
It all ended in tears as the children wanted to live with their Dad and they spent the next decade with him in rented accommodation. I must say he made a fabulous job brining them up, but working full time and the struggle of it all took its toll on his health. He's still in rented accommodation but his wife sold the house and he never got a penny! Which is sad as he deserved better.

1) if you and husband have been apart for more than two years
2) there are no dependent children
3) money and property matter have been agreed upon
4) both of you agree to divorce
Then you can go ahead and do the divorce proceedings yourself for a very small fee to lodge the papers with court.
It seems to me that you need a careful, adult discussion with your husband about how things are now, and how you both want to proceed in the future.
This is how we did our divorce. Don't know current prices to lodge papers with Court, but ours was under £30.

I do think there is a moral quandary here and also your relationship with your children / child and the relationship of the new partners children to their father and to you. These are very important things. You did leave... he didn’t want you to he is still paying the mortgage...I think he should have the right to live in that house until he no longer wishes to / dies, the same gift that is being offered to you by your new partner. On the deaths the property gets shared between you and daughter in husbands case and your new partners children and whatever other legacy you have been left in new partners estate. You don’t mention your new partners ex wife/ mother of his children. If her inheritance went straight to him her children have an even stronger case to not lose it. It’s true that marriage is a powerful legal document but it cuts both ways. Money isn’t everything the liking/love and respect of the next generation can be.

I felt so guilty when I left my abusive husband after 37 years that I let him have almost everything in the divorce. Once I was emotionally stable, I deeply regretted my decision not to fight for my rights. Ex is dead now. Our daughter inherited his considerable estate and is frittering it away. She treats me as badly as her father did, minus the physical abuse. My advice is to be ruthless in guarding your own interests. Self-sacrifice brings nothing but misery and regret.

Don’t spoil it by getting married your partner can make provision for you without marriage. His family of course expect to benefit from an inheritance, your intentions will be very different after 20 or more years of aggravation and dispute with his family, I’ve seen how quickly a family can get at loggerheads over inheritances, my father remarried and it caused chaos, neither you or your partner want that.

You are entitled to a share of your husbands property take that, invest that as a nest egg for your future, just live together and enjoy each other’s company without any hassle

I am in a very similar situation, my property is going to my family, separate provision will be made for my new partner and there will be no marriage, everyone knows exactly where they stand, so there is no reason for any dispute and my partner is accepted into the family by all.

Two problems here: divorce and re-marriage.

Your children are both grown up, you say, so presumably your daughter will soon want to move out of her childhood home.

Find out what you are legally entitled to, then find out what you want to do.

If you divorce, you cannot afford to be sentimental about a home. It will probably have to be sold.

Once you have your divorce, look very carefully at whether you want to remarry and whether you want to marry the man you are currently living with.

Depending on where you live, his provision for you may not be strictly legal. His adult children may be able to contest it if he dies before you do.

Don't walk away from what is rightfully yours (30 yrs of marriage makes it so) UNLESS you have a secure and sizeable nest egg that is entirely yours. The future is unpredictable. Protect yourself.

Just a different thought... .is your new man (and maybe his children) completely content that you’d be bringing nothing to the marriage?

If you haven't contributed to the mortgage since you left then whatever your husband has paid by himself will be deducted from any valuation and basically be regarded as his entitlement. Then the value less any outstanding mortgage will be shared. For your new partner, property is heritable ie can be Willed to anyone regardless if you are married to the person doing the bequething or not. Both you and your partner should consult a solicitor on both matters.

Lizzle10 I can speak from my own experiences of divorce (twice). Everyone is not the same I know but this is what I learnt the (very) hard way.
Your husband sounds a lot like my first ex in that he was right, everyone else wrong, nothing was his fault, he knew better than any professional or expert. If crossed could be very cruel and nasty. I think its the nasty side of him that you are afraid of. You need the support of a good friend now (if he hasnt chased them all away). You need emotional support and back up. You are entitled to be happy, please believe me. I had to have counselling and although they will not tell you what to do its someone safe to tell everything to, they will ask things and gradually you will realise that you are not 'his wife', 'her mum', 'his mum' but you are YOU. It wont be easy to call time on your marriage after so many years, there will be those who make negative comments to you - so what, let them have their opinion. they havent had to live your life, only you have done that. My regret is that I was too nice, too reasonable through both divorces. Putting others before me. It was a BIG mistake and years down the line I can see it. No one thought any better of me, noone thanked me. My second ex husband told a pack of lies on oath and had lived off my earnings during our marriage. Yet he thought himself the perfect honourable gentleman. Your daughter may huff and puff, so let her, he will no doubt be filling her head with nonsense so he can play the injured party. What im attempting to say, and theres so much buzzinground my head there just isnt room to say here is. Go for what is your due, if you dont you may well bitterly regret it later, non of us have a crystal ball to see the future. I'm thinking he probably has a private pension or savings, youmay wellknow nothing about,mine did. He will have to downsize - and so will you. Stop beating yourself up here, if hed have made you happy you would still be there. Be prepared for dirty tricks. Avoid mentioning your gentleman friend or any future plans, dont tell your daughter, she will blab to dad. It would only fan any flames of anger he may have. Dont rush into a second marriage 'for security' as I did. It was him who wanted a housekeeper. I have since remarried and we waited several years before we wed and I can truly say I wish Id met him sooner. My first ex wont be in the same room as me even now, he utterly and completely resents the fact that Im happy. If its 'going to Court' that scares you - stop right there. Its kinder, easier now. If I can do it (shy & meek personified) then so can you. DO NOT trust him, be polite & pleasant, tell him nothing. Claim as much as you possible can, you have put into your marriage just as much as him, youare of value too. In years to come you may be in a position to give each of your children a small lump sum but say nothing now. And if you do remarry please be present when he writes and signs his new will because you need to be protected. Even if you can live in the house who is going to pay for maintenance, rates, insurance, rewires, boilers, leaky roof, etc. etc. be careful, very very careful. Mysincere best wishes to you, remember, you dont know how strong you are until you have to be.

agree with others, don't rush to give anything away.
one's perspective can change with a little distance of time and circumstance.
i also wondered about love-bombing. how long have you known this new man. he sounds so perfect, everything you could ever want, why the need to get married to him. does he think you will have assets that he then will get access to. sorry but one reads of such cases.
doe your daughter have an income. why is your ex struggling alone to pay the mortgage. what does your daughter contribute.
if you are set on what you propose, how about your daughter takes your place with regard to the house, eg a share of the value and of the upkeep, bills etc. if her name is on the title deeds that would halve the IHT due eventually.
don't rush into anything. read widely. many forums eg money saving expert. other people's experiences can be enlightening, and more comprehensible than dull theory.

Lizzle10 there are legal and there are moral issues. Legally after divorce you would be entitled to half the house which would mean either your husband paying you out or you both selling the house and splitting the profits. Unlikely a Court would award the house to one party unless they have dependent children.

That is the easy bit.

The hard bit is looking at your ex and your daughter and telling them you are virtually kicking the rug from under them.

As you say you still love your ex and obviously you love your daughter then this will be very hard for you to do.

If you and your new partner are working well, coping moneywise, I think I would do nothing at all as regards the property you own with your ex (oops sorry he isn't your ex yet is he?) But I probably still wouldn't do anything unless you want to remarry in a hurry. Bide your time, see how things pan out. Make it clear to your husband that you aren't going back though. He may decide he wants to divorce you, in which case the house and everything would have to be discussed at that point.

I don't know how long it is since you walked out but time does have a habit of solving a lot of problems where emotions are concerned. The financial bit can wait.

Can I just say as well that if you don’t take anything (which seems incorrect a lot of people from lawyers judges and MPs worked a long time to ensure BOTH parties are treated fairly in divorce. It might not be perfect but there are laws and fair division for a reason ) anyway your being extremely unfair to your current partner. If he has a house it’s because he worked and paid for it and if you decide to walk away how does that leave him if you marry? He will fully support you etc which is wonderful but it doesn’t need to be like that you could bring something to this relationship , even but half his house so giving you much more in the long run or you could both move and buy together. It’s the new relationship that matters as well as your financial well-being. I’m guessing when you were married you cooked and cleaned and took care of him and the kids and met his needs don’t under value your contribution. DD also needs to stand on her own two feet and maybe she can take out a mortgage and share the property with Dad but anyway be fair to all - self care starts with yourself not everyone else.

You have to consider your future during retirement. By all.means seek half of the house from your ex husband. Whether you worked or not during your marriage is irrelevant. You raised children, cooked and cleaned so you did contribute.

Obviously the lawyer knows best but I’m wondering if it’s possible to divorce and retain ownership of your half but not force a sale. What if in future he goes into a home or decides to sell himself ? Or what if daughter could buy you out and buy herself in ? I divorced and left my first husband in our house. Three years ago he died, I bought out his widow, and have my house back after 14 years. I have to admit though I deeply loved the house ( 500 year old ancient beauty) and I’m thrilled to be reunited !

What if your new relationship doesn't work out and you have signed over the rights to your marital home? You would be left with nothing. Think very carefully before you make an irreversible decision

Please tread carefully and cautiously, I hired a solicitor that gave me an estimate and then slowed right down, made ridiculous, obvious mistakes and didn't do what was promised, when I asked what would happen if the fees went over what I had, would they be taken from the equity on the house sale, yes, was the answer, followed by, "there's not enough to go around". I terminated their services and became a litigant in person and did my own paperwork. I had complete understanding of the financial irregularities he'd gotten up to and was able to furnish documents to prove it. As a result, the agreement reached was really in my favour and my court costs stayed at the cost when I terminated the solicitor's service. They play games with what we have and rack up the bills doing that. The opposition's solicitor kept advising me to seek legal advice to which I replied, please stop doing that because that translates to me as, lose all your money and any you might get from the sale of the house and allow us to play games at your expense. Their reputation is well deserved.

Definitely think carefully and take professional advice.

As Elderflower warns watch out for solicitors dragging out the divorce to generate fees, try very hard to get an agreed settlement with your ex. Have in mind that a solicitor is likely to be charging £250 hr or more and if a barrister is involved it will be much more.
If you insist on fighting for a unrealistic settlement you solicitor will be happy to keep charging fees so be realistic.

Mine was £300 per hour on the phone and £30 per email and the bills read that further costs would be added if I wanted a breakdown.