Coming back to the UK after 45 years living abroad.

There are many and complex reasons why people go to live and work abroad.
Exactly callistemon, and many prejudices in all countries. When we bought abroad the lawyer, representing the country, said to us while we signed the documents, we white English were ok, it was the Africans they didn't want. My husband didn't have enough command of the language to voice his disgust.

Callistemon, anyone that benefitted from apartheid was racist.

I feel as if I've entered a parallel universe on this thread! Did any of you watch the news during the overthrow of apartheid? Did you support the fight of Nelson Mandela?

I'm glad you read the thread properly ann and I got some good replies before it got a bit silly! Thank you

callistemon good posts.

Thank you to all the people who got my op and didnt make huge assumptions.

Annaram1

Gagajo, we live in our time. In the 50s all the racism etc was not seen as racism. I went to school there and got my first job there. I was not bothered about colour then, all I saw was difference. I never thought at all that things were unfair on black Africans, I was just a kid. It was accepted then. If you had gone there as a child (I was nearly 7 and had no choice ) you would have just accepted it. You are looking at it from the point of view of an elderly white British person.
Things are different in this country in the 2020s. , aren't they, yet there are still a lot of people here who would prefer it if their child does not marry a black person. You may be one of them. Racism is alive and kicking in Britain today yet most people deny that they are racist!

Annaram, my AC is mixed race, so is my GC. I married a black American in 1981, so no, I don't and never have seen people of different colours as different. It is melanin to me. Nothing more. I felt this way 40 years ago.

You are right that many people are racist. Very sad and ignorant.

I have this year had a black SA scholarship student. She spoke very movingly about the rape and pillage of her country by a violent white minority. She has a very different perspective to those of the white invaders. Incidentally, she rose through the ranks of the very exclusive school she attends and is now head girl. All based on merit.

It is very sad that the OP has family she is worried about.

In 1975 when we were offered a position in Johannesburg, we told a friend we were going to SA to live. Wish yaw'll could have heard her then! On and on she went about oppressive regimes, apartheid etc. etc. Half an hour bending my ear in a state of fury. When asked whether she had actually been there and could speak from experience, she told me she had never been further than Calais for a day trip! Speaks volumes.

I typed 'reasons', not expressions.
And ' there'

Apologies.

I wondered that too, annsixty

There are many and complex expressions why people go to live and work abroad.
Not everyone who lived and worked in an African country should be labelled a racist advocate of apartheid. So many were not, especially those not born ypthe.

The situation in SA has changed quickly and quite dramatically in some areas and it is quite worrying.

I think the point is: They are your family and you want to help them in their hour of need.
Is there enough money in the family and accommodation for them so they don't have to rely on the State?
(if the messages on here are anything to go by, many reactions will be hostile)
Age UK or similar agencies may offer advice, from experience.
I hope they get happily settled somewhere.

I would hazard a guess kitty that you are sorry you started this thread.
Do people not read properly.
Kitty was wondering what the situation would be, if and only if, her BiL deteriorated to a state where his wife could not cope.
I expect their family will step up and not let this happen.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but why should UK be OK now that your brother needs the NHS, but was not good enough for him for 45 years?

GagaJo

I think the colonisation of Africa was wrong and any Westerners that emigrated there 45 years ago, in the 1970's WOULD have been taking advantage of the oppressive and racist apartheid regime. How is that NOT true? Please feel free to explain the point if I am completely wrong?

Yes, prioritising blacks now is positive discrimination. It is to make up for the positive discrimination of whites that your BIL enjoyed for years.

I would have a slightly different view if they were born there. An accident of birth is unavoidable and outside of our control. But to move somewhere as rampantly and violently racist in the 1970s means they actively participated in that system.

Someone I know decided that he wanted to go to an African country in the 1960s because he wanted to help Africans; he had qualified as a teacher and went out under the GVSO scheme, fell in love with the country and with a local girl. He eventually became headmaster of a school which educated boys. Perhaps that was discriminatory. I think the majority of pupils were black and they may not have received such a good education if people like him did not go out there to teach.
However, unfortunately, they felt unsafe there after many years of work and bringing up their family but were young enough to come back here and start afresh.
Was he exploiting? I don't think so. He was educating and helping those boys to fill their potential.

He could have got a job in an expensive private school here or on the Continent, but he wanted to be where he thought he could do most good, not earn most money.

I have a couple of other friends who went out under the GVSO scheme too. Exploiting or educating?

Exactly, not exbactly!

Gagajo , good post. Incidentally, nobody should believe the rubbish (I want to use a much stronger word!) in the tabloids about immigrants in the UK. For example, an asylum seeker gets housing benefit, often for a hostel or B&B, and £37.75 per week for everything else. Not exbactly the lap of luxury.

Newatthis, so you want unhappy people who are old and British but live abroad to starve when they come back, instead of starving in a foreign country? You DON'T sympathise with his condition. Most of you don't know what the hell you are talking about!!! You are just jealous. Where is your charity? If you had lived in South Africa you might just have some.

So, he hasn’t contributed anything as far as NHS contributions or Income Tax to this country for 45 years but he wants to come back now and reap the benefits of free medical care and it sounds like other benefits etc, etc. Much as I sympathise with his condition and nobody should have to go through that I’ve really got no sympathy for anybody who thinks that they can just walk back into this country and take, take, take.

I agree Annaram1, there is so much which can't be measured by today's standards.

Gagajo, we live in our time. In the 50s all the racism etc was not seen as racism. I went to school there and got my first job there. I was not bothered about colour then, all I saw was difference. I never thought at all that things were unfair on black Africans, I was just a kid. It was accepted then. If you had gone there as a child (I was nearly 7 and had no choice ) you would have just accepted it. You are looking at it from the point of view of an elderly white British person.
Things are different in this country in the 2020s. , aren't they, yet there are still a lot of people here who would prefer it if their child does not marry a black person. You may be one of them. Racism is alive and kicking in Britain today yet most people deny that they are racist!

Dual nationality is the way to go.

We’ve had overseas postings with my dh’s job and even though we still had a home in the UK and paid Council Tax and NI, we were deregistered from the NHS after a mere six weeks. To this day I don’t know how our surgery knew we’d left the country but all our notes were sent to a central depot and we were unable to get non-emergency NHS treatment.

Personally, in the BIL’s situation I think it’s better to stick with the devil you know. Finding your way round a system you last used 45 years ago will be one heck of a challenge, even with help. The massive change of circumstance could cause the BIL’s dementia to go over a cliff-edge and to be removed from children and grandchildren would be a terrible wrench. If they are ever to see their family again it would cost amounts of money for plane tickets that would be better used to mitigating their situation in SA.

KL's BiL was seizing the opportunities which opened up to him at the time, and it is common for many people who move abroad to live for the moment. My mother went to South Africa in the 50's to work. For years she was a governess to the High Commissioner on a tobacco farm. I'm guessing she wasn't contributing to the local economy nor paying into the system. I know it affected her UK pension though as she hadn't paid in sufficient to receive one. I remember her asking if she could pay it back with compound interest during her working life but she wasn't allowed to make up the shortfall. She was just told to apply for social security when she was old which she was against doing. There was no problem with her accessing NHS healthcare, however, as I was born shortly after her return to the UK.

I will repeat this

I said, if they decided to come back here! I also said they have not said they intend to!!

Gagajo, as I said, you know nothing about DBiL's life. He went to SA for short period for work and, like many people do in those circumstances, fell in love with the place.

The owner of the company died, DBiL decided to buy the widow out and continued to run it. It only had 2 other employees (both black) The positive discrimination in this case was in favour of the Chinese (a huge kickback to various people in power was involved) They had no servants rather my sil taught in underprivileged schools as a volunteer. But, you carry on with your blind prejudice about other people and the way they live their lives.

Maybe the problem of UK citizens returning to this country wanting to accept treatment on the NHS, State Pensions, etc should be addressed by the Government. In the USA you have to give up your citizenship completely of pay your taxes just like any other citizen. I can see that there should be a deduction for the services they won't use like schooling, etc but access to social care, medical treatment and pensions should be kept open by a form of insurance. Mind you, I also think that people who have never worked in this country without good reason should have limited assistance too.

Emergency treatment is available free.

Having a UK bank account and being in receipt of UK based pensions will be a great help in re-establishing themselves in the UK. My son returned from the USA with neither of these and was told he needed ID to open a bank account, his passport was one proof source but he hadn't anything else they would accept and it wasn't until he managed to open a bank account that he could apply for any kind of help. He has been accepted for Universal Credit as he is under pension age, I believe they have told him he will receive a state pension at the appropriate age but that this might not be the full pension unless he gets enough NIC credits by working for 35 years or more.

We returned to the UK after 44 years absence, 11 years in SA. It has taken a good deal of time and a huge amount of effort to assimilate. Perhaps we came back too late in our mid-70s? It is certainly far from easy. However, whilst in Belgium and France, we paid into their health systems, which have a reciprocal arrangement with the UK. Did not apply when we were in SA or Oz or Swizzle.
We have since managed to register with an NHS doctors' practice locally, and even found an NHS dentist - lucky us.
We had to write to the Tax Department for a tax file number. There are many hurdles through which one has to jump before being "legal" here. We have still to see about our driving licences.
If your rellies would like to correspond with us directly, please feel free to do so - we like to think we have a wealth of experience under our belts by now. They will miss a lot of things about SA, noticeably the sunshine - weather here is often appalling in comparison [except Belgium]!!!