People who menstruate

And I believe firmly in actively discriminating against men in order to keep my rights to safe spaces, to access women only services, to request a woman care giver, to have my voice as a woman heard and not to be represented by a transwoman telling people how women feel.

I haven't put men anywhere and neither have trans women.

That should say you are not answering questions rather than the gobbledegook I wrote.

No I dont think you are having an honest discussion either whereas there are people who I disagree with on here who are. Tou are not asking any questions I have repeatedly challenged the misogyny of lives and dresses like a woman and asked you what that means and why it's ok to use that phrase but you dont answer.
If you put men in womens spaces then they are no longer single sexed, mixed sex with safeguards is not single sex, no matter how much we pretend it is. You have taken away womens right to single sex spaces by placing men in them.

Star the way to safeguard women and girls is to not let men with penises who say they are women into women only spaces ( of any kind). And it’s not just about physical safety - it’s about dignity, privacy, well-being, and for some, religious or cultural beliefs.

Show me where I said that women can't have single sex spaces and I will address it.

Changing rooms and cubicles which I have suggested as being unisex and secure are not the same as prisons and hostels.

However safeguarding is in place there and safeguarding failures have happened that need to be addressed.

I believe that there should be a way to make everyone safe and comfortable without actively discriminating

I believe that and have repeated it several times after listening to others point of view.

Don't put words in my mouth, it's not honest and not healthy discussion.

Galaxy an earlier statement of yours has bothered me all night Feminism is for women
There have been men who were and are feminists since records began. During the campaign fo the vote Henry Brailsford a well-known journalist and writer formed the Men's League for Women's Suffrage. He supported his suffragette wife Jane Brailsford and wrote for the Votes For Women newspaper. It's a great mistake to think there are no feminist men or to imagine that all women understand or support feminism.

There should be wings in prisons for transgender people - to protect transmen in men’s prisons and to protect biological women in women’s prisons. See the common threat?

Then challenge mysogyny, don't allow it to back you up in your opinion.

But women would not be violated if a man is in a womans prison. It doesnt make sense trisher.

I believe in consent starblaze
So for some women for example being in a space with a man is intolerable some woman find unisex facilities absolutely fine. I am not saying that those women should use single sex spaces that would be insane, but you (generic you) are saying that women arent allowed single sex spaces. It's not me who is tellkng people what to do.

janeainsworh Sorry Trisher but I’m afraid drug dealers who ruin many other people’s lives are one group of society who have crossed the sympathy line as far as I’m concerned
I didn't actually say she was dealing I said she had been charged with dealing. If we work on the principle that everyone is innocent until proved guilty she may well have been the victim of circumstance and would be aquitted when she came to trial, unfortunately while held on remand in a men's prison she would have been violated, But that's OK because some believe she is a man and men deserve everything they get don't they?

Terri I won’t even write the c word in full. How dare TRAs decide to qualify the word woman by use of this word? How bloody dare they? I’m a woman - adult human female Transwomen are transwomen.

As for the comment by MrsW about the language being reminiscent of old school homophobia - again how bloody dare you. Gay rights were not about taking away the rights of straight people but about extending the rights of straight people to those who are gay. But TRAs want to take away my rights to safe spaces, to demolish the years of battles we’ve had as women to even establish ourselves as people with basic rights - TRAs want to redefine what a woman is. To make biological women as a class just disappear.

No I dont speak for everyone you are the one who is talking about letting people into feminist ideology. I said I thought that was an alien concept.

I think you mean peoplism, Starblaze.
Why would you want to have 'everyone' in feminism?

Galaxy So you are entitled to speak for all women whether they agree with you or not?

You 100% know what is best and right for all women?

How is that feminism? Feminism is equality, not dictatorship.

I would say do I let people into my feminist ideology who use the phrases dresses or lives like a woman or do they need educating on discrimination. Except I wouldn't say any of that because the concept of letting people into feminism is completely alien to me. Feminism is for women, whether they agree with me or not.

Caitlyn Jenner when asked what the most difficult aspect of being female was, "oh deciding what to wear" Really!!! but then I suppose she was and still is one one of the Kardashian tribe.

I think a very serious question is, do I let people in to my feminist idealogy through their agreement with me on one matter...

Because the answer is no. It is important to educate them and strengthen feminism as a whole.

As it is important to educate others on what discrimination is and ways we can achieve comfortable situations for everyone without actively discriminating.

That is rarely accomplished by calling people bigoted or transphobic but people do need to understand that people who have been marginalised and discriminated against can and will do that.

Even though I personally don't believe it particularly helps the cause.

That's lovely starblaze but it's not the case for many women we are asking what living like a woman is ? is it as it is for many women doing the majority of the household tasks and childcare, acknowledging that this happens and trying to solve that problem is absolutely feminism. We are asking what living like a woman means we are not the ones using that terms.

I know this is not central to the main discussion but She is waiting for surgery but she has a drug problem and she is arrested and charged with using and dealing
Sorry Trisher but I’m afraid drug dealers who ruin many other people’s lives are one group of society who have crossed the sympathy line as far as I’m concerned.
Struggling with gender identity yes.
Kicked out by their parents yes
Homeless yes
Drug dealing no.

There are no gender roles in this house.

Bravo! Now what about in the wider community, where there are serious issues of women's rights to safety?

Iam64 posted earlier today and said

Any question, no matter how genuine and serious is dismissed as transphobic.

And she was right wasn't she?

Flowershop

*Transwomen have been in the spaces you define as women's spaces for years and years, you just didn't know they were there*
We know. we've always known, but politeness and female socialisation has prevented us from speaking out.That's now ended.
You go on to mention Jan Morris living as a woman, how exactly did he do this?
Did he take full responsibility for his children. did he do all the housework? Did he take time off work when his children were unwell? Did he stay at home while his wife worked and socialised with friends? . Did he do the school run every day? , did he attend every parents evening? Did he cook all meals for the family? Did his natal wife support the household on her earnings?
Or did he wear women's clothing every day? Living as a woman is more than putting on female clothes.
No male person can live as a woman. Just as no female person can live as a man.
Human beings cannot change sex. Ever.

Whether you are trans inclusionary or trans exclusionary this is the exact opposite of feminism.

There are no gender roles in this house. Just who is available to do any task as and when it needs doing while catering to individual strengths and weaknesses.

I think cases have to be looked at on an individual basis, the hypothetical one you described Trisher, I'd say a woman's prison would be the safest place.

Problems arise when lines get blurred, particularly with an evolving dilemma. Surely some common sense should prevail though, any individual who has been a previous sex offender against women, such as Karen White, an entitled Karen if ever there was one should not be placed in a women's prison. The rights of vulnerable women, such as those in refuges who have suffered at the hands of men already should be paramount over those of any biological man wishing to identify as a woman. I did read about an incidence of abuse in a refuge in Canada carried out by an "opportunistic" transwoman, and whilst it may be rare, one case is one too many. Why should any woman who is already scarred from previous abuse have her safety compromised in what should be a safe sanctuary. What most women fear is the occasional "opportunist" among the transwomen population per se, particularly when accessing female only spaces and whilst I imagine it's not unknown that a small proportion of women could be predatory, I've yet to hear of say a young girl being assaulted by some random woman in female toilets, I have however heard of girls being followed in and being assaulted by a male and similarly boys being assaulted by males in the men's toilets. Women are naturally cautious about "biological men" who identify as women sharing spaces where they would feel exposed. Someone posted up thread the number of assaults that have taken place in changing rooms at swimming pools, that are accessible to both sexes. It's very striking how the problems all seem to stem only one way, men transitioning to women rather than women to men and in those cases one can't help concluding, whilst not wishing to slur all men, aggression and entitlement is more likely to be a masculine characteristic

Am I alone in hating the unnecessary prefix "cis" A while ago, a friend of mine had to fill out some sort of form at her place of work which had a tick box section as to what sex the participants described themselves as, "cis woman" was one option, friend said she had no idea whether she was one or not, because didn't know what it meant. Neither I imagine do most of the population.