People who menstruate

Yet changing how we look on the outside to how we feel on the inside

What does that even mean? I could put on a boiler suit, carry a bag of tools and say that I dress like a plumber and I feel like a plumber, therefore I'm a plumber! Ridiculous argument!

The only misogyny that I've seen on this thread so far, has been those who have denied that spaces for women, such as toilets, refuges and changing rooms, should be kept exclusively for women. Not for a biological man who feels like he's a woman.

Starblaze

MrsWarren

Yes, trans is not a choice, sexuality is not a choice anymore than biologically assigned hair colour or eye colour is a choice. Yet changing how we look on the outside to how we feel on the inside is widely accepted unless a trans person is doing it. Despite evidence that their brain function and appearance matches who they feel on the inside.

Much of the language used in these types of threads is reminiscent of old school homophobia.

I think people who use those phrases are doing a massive disservice to both women and transwomen.

I cant even remember that to be honest, I think that was someone being sarcastic wasnt it. Talking about how clothes etc are seen as living like a woman but doing all the grunt work wasnt. That doesnt answer my question about the misogyny in the phrase lives or dresses like a woman
Yesterday myself and my husband watched some football matches, we pottered about the house and we both wore jeans. Which one of us was living or dressing as a woman.

Chewbacca

^Trans identity is not a life choice.^

Neither is being a vulnerable woman who is expected to share their safe space with a man.

So, do you believe it to be a choice or not? Because you implied that you did.

And by “share their safe space with a man”, do you mean trans woman?

You can have concerns about shared spaces without showing such disregard towards trans people.

That was mysogyny so I waited to see if it would be challenged.... It wasn't

You're wrong I'm afraid Starblaze. Galaxy challenged that comment @ 00.29. Go back and have a look.

There was a post on this thread about how a trans woman should be fulfilling gender roles as the woman of the house or they could not in fact be a woman.

That was mysogyny so I waited to see if it would be challenged.... It wasn't.

Why?

You see how regressive this is, I am now having to argue that what you wear is nothing to do with being a woman.

Its is deeply misogynistic to use the term dresses as a woman or lives like a woman, imagine using these phrases about any other group.

Galaxy in your opinion

No one cares how people present, we are arguing that saying how you present makes you male or female is deeply deeply sexist.

MrsWarren

Yes, trans is not a choice, sexuality is not a choice anymore than biologically assigned hair colour or eye colour is a choice. Yet changing how we look on the outside to how we feel on the inside is widely accepted unless a trans person is doing it. Despite evidence that their brain function and appearance matches who they feel on the inside.

Trans identity is not a life choice.

Neither is being a vulnerable woman who is expected to share their safe space with a man.

But why would that be trisher, you have been telling us that sex offenders etc are safely segregated in prisons so why would this 22 year old be any more at risk in a mans prison. After all there are many violent women apparently.

Chewbacca

^Most people really just want to be who they are and live their lives accepted.^

And of course they can. Provided that they don't expect everyone else to make exceptional allowances for their own particular problems or life choices.

Trans identity is not a life choice.

It sounds as though she'll be in the same danger as cis women are being placed in, when men are in their safe spaces. So who's safety is the more paramount?

It should not expose anyone to harm. Whatever their gender and however they choose to identify.
Suppose you have a 22 year old trans woman. She has been livng and dressing as a woman since she was 15 and was thrown out of her home by her parents because of this. She is waiting for surgery but she has a drug problem and she is arrested and charged with using and dealing. The police oppose bail because she is homeless. Do you put her in a women's prison because she poses no danger, or do you put her in a mens prison because she hasn't had surgery? She will undoubtedly be raped and brutalised in the men's prison.

The funding for women's refuges has been devastated by austerity. Local authorities have cut funding the charities that have for many years, supported local authority funding. One local example is the closure of contact centre which provided safe, supervised contact between non residential parents, whose history meant unsupervised contact wasn't at that point appropriate. A group for men who had histories of domestic abuse -closed.
Our women's refuge is still going thankfully. Chewbacca has posted some information about the known offences committed by men who have self ID'd as female. Of course the prison service, for example, has safeguarding responsibilities. In the real world, prisons are over crowded, dangerous places. Yes, sex offenders are often housed under Rule 43 but they don't all want to be so segregated. We can all dream about ideal worlds and indeed do what we can to work towards that. Meanwhile, we make the best we can of our far from ideal world. That should never mean women exposing other women to harm.

Good post petunia

I wonder i they were just clarifying that these reusable pads are not for those who have a continence problem. I know some ladies use ST instead of something like Tena pads if they have a small issue. Maybe these would not be effective. Just a thought.

And so another company, who specialises in the needs of a particular biological sex, women, jumps on the band wagon.

My issue with this cult of transgenderism is the dismissal of women as a biological sex. This is particularity seen in left leaning political groups. In an effort to show their inclusive credentials, most political parties are tying themselves in knots to dismiss biological sex and embrace gender inclusivity. Any question, no matter how genuine and serious is dismissed as transphobic. This point of view has quickly spread into public institutions, education etc.,no one wants to be seen on the wrong side of the argument and so have rushed headlong into blind acceptance. Most of the media has jumped head first into this. And also retail, spotting a trend.

But blind acceptance that trans women are women, and if you think otherwise you are a bigot,has dismissed the legitimate questions and concerns of over half the planet. The wants and desires of a miniscule section of the population have been elevated to a position of great importance. Why worry about domestic violence, medical needs, sex trafficking, work place equality, female infanticide, FGM and the rest of the package that being female entails when we can focus on the feelings and desires of a tiny group of biological men.

If biology becomes irrelevant, what happens to biological women? I don't want people who struggle with their gender identity to be ignored, but I do want the implications of this headlong rush to minimise biology to be debated and examined. Women should not be silenced or crushed.

I have never understood why you have to pay for sanitry towels or tampons. I must have spent a small fortune over the years on these! They should be free I have always thought this. It is a natural woman thing yet it goes on and on. I hate the ads as well it makes me cringe when they say it helps with the flow etc and make sure you put it right in ugh!!! Such a personal thing in your face. And dont get me started on the other pads that help when you have a little wee come out. Some things dont have to be advertised.

How does one live as a woman, what on earth does that mean. Again this is not the fault of transwomen, they were sold this nonsense by deeply sexist people in the medical profession.

Katie Dolatowski, a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was convicted of voyeurism and sexual assault at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court in August 2018. Dolatowski, who was 17 at the time, had attacked two young girls in supermarket toilets in Dumfermline and Kirkcaldy.

Transwomen have been in the spaces you define as women's spaces for years and years, you just didn't know they were there
We know. we've always known, but politeness and female socialisation has prevented us from speaking out.That's now ended.
You go on to mention Jan Morris living as a woman, how exactly did he do this?
Did he take full responsibility for his children. did he do all the housework? Did he take time off work when his children were unwell? Did he stay at home while his wife worked and socialised with friends? . Did he do the school run every day? , did he attend every parents evening? Did he cook all meals for the family? Did his natal wife support the household on her earnings?
Or did he wear women's clothing every day? Living as a woman is more than putting on female clothes.
No male person can live as a woman. Just as no female person can live as a man.
Human beings cannot change sex. Ever.