People who menstruate

No I didnt say you has suggested it, I just said it is a more honest approach than saying some men can enter womens spaces.

I dont think whatever happens they are going to let men and women into a locked cubicle together as a rule.

Are you still talking to me galaxy because it should be noted that I haven't suggested that.

Sex segregation is a complex issue that does not need to be in the examples I have provided.

Sex segregation went against equality in some historic examples so I expect the fact that the subject can be revisited with the umbrella of safeguarding and the equality act protecting different groups is a good one.

Now I think there is an argument that we should do away with sex segregation altogether, I dont agree with that argument but at least there is some honesty to it, saying that some men should enter womens spaces whilst others cant is nonsense.

Maybe I would like to take my husband in the changing cubicle for me as an example

When a sacred caste is created, nobody wants to question that caste for fear of insulting or upsetting them. Or people are scared of an accusation of transphobia. Or of being accused of trans exclusionary behaviour.
Problems arise then, when SOME, not all, of that caste behave badly and abuse women and children.
A sacred caste has been created, a homophobic rhetoric that has the institutions in its grasp. The trans ideology is one of the most sickening ideologies that this country has ever seen.
There's has been a 4000% increase in girls wanting to transition to boys. Anybody ever thought that the extreme pornography that's freely available online may have had an impact on this figure.
Those with genuine gender dysphoria must be horrified at the grip that trans ideology has in this country.
The sacred caste must be dismantled. I'm hoping that the case against the Tavistock clinic is successful.

Galaxy, I am asking for something that suits the individual. So that if I want to share a space with someone I feel comfortable with I can but I can also have a private space.

That may not be possible.for all current building designs etc but putting it in place for the future is reasonable

But sex segregation is discriminatory by its nature. It prevents a particular group going where another group can go. I am not trying to be unfair to you, that's just what sex segregation is, it discriminates for want of a better word between two groups of people.

OK, that's not fair and it's not what I am saying at all.

Sex segregation is protected under the equality act. Are you saying men are currently being judged because they arent permitted in a womans changing room for example.

No we don't Galaxy that is a reasonable safeguarding measure which we can have without judging the many by the actions of the few.

Everyone going through the same security measures is equality. It prevents random security checks being discriminatory. It safeguards people from discrimination.

I think it was trisher who said, we can't ask to check if everyone has a penis before they enter a bathroom or changing room. Reasonable safeguarding would be seperate secure facilities for everyone. No discrimination or judging involved, risk awareness, not judgement.

It is similar to screening people at airports most people arent terrorists but as we cant tell who is a terrorist we screen everybody, we therefore have to judge that everyone might be a potential terrorist because of the actions of a few.

Most people who work with children dont harm them but some do therefore everyone who works with children has to have a Dbs. Men as a whole are more likely to commit violent crime and in particular violent sexual crime. It is one of the reasons we segregate by sex, not the only reason but one of them. This does not mean all men are a risk but as we cant tell which ones are so we put safeguards in place. Sex segregation is by its nature discriminatory.

Safeguarding is about preventing harm, abuse, bullying and neglect. Being safe is a basic right so safeguarding is in place to protect the vulnerable.

A DBS is indeed safeguarding as it looks into the individuals history, judging them by their actions, no one else's.

Ive never read anywhere it called judging the many by the actions of a few and I literally have safeguarding in my diploma.

Judging the many by the actions of a few also puts lives at risk and causes a lot of discrimination. That is not safeguarding. Safeguarding protects from discrimination. The Equality Act as one example.

No one on this thread that I am aware of has asked that any one be put at risk. There are many safeguarding measures that can be put in place to prevent risk and organisations like prisons have a duty to do that.

Re the homophobia of the TRAs - it has caused a bitter split in the LGBT community. And guess who have been the main recipients of this hatred? Yep - lesbians ie biological women. The TRAs argued that lesbians should be happy to have sex with transwomen - yep that’s right, have sex with a person with a penis who identified as a woman. If they refused, they were transphobic. TRAs hate women and want them erased. Full stop.

Feminism is for women trisher I am sorry people have convinced you otherwise. In the same way that gay rights are for people who are gay.
So by your arguement we have no need to segregate by sex at all. Many many people in refuges are raising concerns about this as did those running the prison services.
Safeguarding involves judging people by the acts of a few, it is why we have DBS checks for people who work with children.

Trisher I wish I had a Faith in Humanity Restored award to give you for today

Was is it ever thus when our mothers went into stores for that strange package which always seemed to be concealed in brown paper for some strange reason. In retrospect none of us could have possibly known that the subterfuge involved in the covert wrapping procedure was merely there to conceal the exclusionary word "woman"

Sex offenders whatever their gender need to be accommodated in special units, as they are either likely to commit acts of violence or be assaulted themselves. Most of them choose to be accommodated in such units. It should perhaps be compulsory. As I said before it is neither just nor reasonable to judge all trans women by the acts of a few.
As for special spaces I have asked before how would such people be prevented from entering a changing room, a gym or any other facility? Who is going to inspect them to see if they have a penis? Insisting that it is even possible to oversee these with complete confidence is just untrue. If we are talking about refuges I have said before that women who work in the field have said that their risk assessments rule out anyone being admitted, whatever their gender, who might be seen as a threat to other residents. I am happy to leave that in their hands.
I wish those busy arguing about this would turn their attention to the very real threats faced by all minority groups be it because of their gender, racial origin or religion. Patriachy divides and conquers, feminism embraces and unites.

Exactly Varian.

I agree flowershop the homophobia is breathtaking. That and the issues around children with autism are what made me sit up and take notice.

I assume that as a woman who does not need sanitary products you would understand not to buy them so there is no problem with using the word women. While I was pregnant I understood that I didnt need to use sanitary products, I had no problem at that time with them being labelled for use as by women.

The point is, surely, that this product could be of interest to people who menstruate, ie pre-menopausal woman. As a post-menopausal woman, it is of no interest to me. So what's the problem? There is none.

It's a good wheeze for some.
How to pull the wool over the eyes of those in authority because those in authority are terrified of offending those who are transgender.

Transgender prisoners have carried out seven sex attacks on women in jail. Official figures show for the first time the true scale of offending by criminals who were born male but were allowed to move into female jails after changing gender.

Yet despite the risks, prison governors are still allowing trans inmates to move into the jails. Male-born trans prisoners were first allowed to request a transfer to women's jails in England and Wales in 2016.

Although trans women make up about one per cent of the 3,600 female jail population, they are to blame for 5.6 per cent of sexual assaults there. The attacks took place at HMP Low Newton, HMP Foston Hall, HMP Peterborough (Female) and HMP Bronzefield as well as HMP New Hall.

May 2020