What can we expect from tomorrow's announcement?

I just don’t understand why people object to rules that are there to save lives. What good is a business if the owner loses his life; what good is a granny if she is too ill to see her grandchildren?

It's very doubtfull if people in the North will abide by any rules.

Good grief trisher!, what in earth do you mean!

As a person from the north I'd love to know why you doubt I'll stick to the rules!

Iam64 yes, I would say that the way many people, especially younger people staggering around in groups laughing shouting etc without masks or distancing is stupid, as is having house parties and so on.
As are large multigenerational weekend get togethers.
It’s easy to say that it’s down to poverty, but it’s also down to arrogance and selfishness as well.
The government has a hard job trying to strike a balance between stopping hospitals being overwhelmed in Winter, and keeping the economy going.Scotland, Wales and NI are trying to keep the same balance, as, no doubt are all the other countries where Covid is raging.

lemongrove - seriously, are you suggesting the high R rate in the north is down to stupidity?
Yes of course, some idiots refuse to follow simple guidance like face, hands, social distance. Thats the same in London. The infection is spreading faster in areas of high deprivation, areas with multi generational families living in cramped conditions. That'd be "the north" then.
The northern mayors are not "politically point scoring". They are representing their communities, which are sinking even further into unemployment, social unrest and depression. That's their job. Thank goodness they're making a noise. Goodness knows if this wretched government will listen of course. Northern poor house.

Teetime I have great sympathy with University lecturers, it must be a nightmare for all, let alone the less techie types trying to organise online lectures.

Which makes me think of the tv series ‘Red Riding’ ( awful subject matter but brilliantly done) where the corrupt detectives all clink whisky glasses and shout ‘To the North! Where we do as we like!’?

My daughter and family live in Warrington and have been abiding by the rules all the way through. MY SIL a university lecturer recently had a complete breakdown with the stress of trying to provide on line biochemistry lectures from a temporary lab he set up in their living room.

Btw.....I’m a Northerner too.

I agree with M0nica.
I’m masking up and only going out when essential.

I don’t think that Monica was maligning the North per se,
But we have all seen the many places ( Northern cities) on tv or pics on social media/ newspapers of throngs of partying young people, queuing up for bars and dancing about in the street clutching cans and each other.A mixture of stupidity and (drunken) high spirits.Especially over this last weekend.

Another pig ignorant northerner here who has been nowhere since February except to get a flu vaccination.

What the country needs in a crisis is for the general public to
Abide by the rules made, ( made not to be killjoys) but to prevent the rate of transmission from person to person.Regular hand washing, covering the mouth and nose and not getting close to another person isn’t hard to understand.Students ( and others) not doing so is because they don’t want to...as simple as that.
The Northern mayors and businesses are respectively political point scoring and (naturally) not wanting firms in the hospitality sector to lose money.Scotland is doing much the same regarding pubs and restaurants selling alcohol as Johnson is likely to announce.It’s being done in both countries, because it’s a necessary measure.

M0nica

Frankly my dear, I couldn't give a damn (quote, Gone with the Wind). It neatly sums up my attitude.

We are lumbered with a government that could not organise the proverbial in a brewery. Rules change daily, MPs, of all parties think whatever the rules are they do not apply to them.

No one talks to anybody no-one thinks anything through and every time the government announces new measures it is surprised by the obvious consequences. - if all pubs and eateries close at 10.00pm, there will suddenly be lots of people coming out of them onto the streets all at the same time. I doubt the new raft of measures will be any better

I am now ignoring any news to do with COVID. I wear mask and gloves when out and avoid my fellow creatures. As far as I am concerned the government can make any rules it likes, I couldn't care less.

I couldn't agree more.

Thanks Missfoodlove, another northern savage here feeling increasingly fed up with "the north" being referred to as though it's a foreign and dangerous land.

I agree with the about the government leaking to the press, letting us stew for a few days then Mr Johnson appearing to deliver restrictions/guidance/regulations to us plebs. It's been great to hear the northern Mayors and some MP's speaking up for their regions. Especially to hear those strong northern accents challenging what feels like old Etonion advice to the poor and dim.

I live in a northern university city.
The R rate increased 14 days after freshers week.
As northern savages we are of course ignoring advice, the few of us that can read are passing the news on though.

In times of crises we need competence and leadership.

We have neither.

The trouble with some of your suggestions is that is not what happens in reality. I attend childrens football weekly, there is no social distancing with the spectators, no one will police these ideas of holding small sporting events for example( not that I particularly want them to) and so it continues.

I think most people are using their own “Cummings common sense” rules and don’t know or care about the government’s ever changing rules, which are unenforced.
My rules would be-
Mask wearing and social distancing on transport and in shops should be strictly enforced = no mask worn correctly = no travel or entry to shop.
2 households should be allowed to meet once a week indoors or outdoors.
Schools and pubs should stay open with staggered opening times decided locally..
Limited numbers of socially distanced spectators allowed at sports and small entertainments, (no reason why people can’t attend a lower league football match sitting outside spaced out, wearing masks , or a classical music concert in a cathedral, where they can easily distance . )
Only students studying subjects with large practical element - medicine, science, music etc need be present at university, those studying English, history etc should stay at home and study remotely.
Nightingale hospitals used for covid patients, other hospitals to deal with outpatients, and other services( obviously funding/ staffing crucial for this one) . Covid free smaller hospitals for cancer, heart patients etc( this is happening in many areas).
Still, you can bet the government are bound to mess it up with yet another changed complicated system which even they won’t adhere to. Wonder what the next 3 word slogan will be.

Msida, me too, I'm really hoping that the NHS won't be overburdened this winter.

I can foresee two real problems, though. Firstly, the government may be very reluctant to bring in sufficient effective measures to reduce the infection rate (bearing in mind the terrible consequences for the economy).

Secondly, people will have 'lockdown fatigue', feel that they've sacrificed enough and have their usual Midwinter Feast/Christmas festivities and get-togethers. They'll refuse to take it seriously or comply with the measures anyway.

I do hope I'm wrong!

I appreciate what you are saying Hetty58 you could be right. I just think that looking at history does help find answers and I only hope that things do not get any worse

......Much better to limit meetings to 2 households, ignore numbers, and only 2 different households in one week........

Absolutely. A very sensible and workable suggestion. I believe the government have admitted that the rule of six had no scientific basis. No more than two households per week seems eminently workable. The rule of six will fail because it's not really workable for many families e.g. a family of six people cannot meet up with anyone at all unless they split up.

I went into Durham last Thursday and couldn’t believe the large groups of students wandering about. They had no concept of social distancing, many of them refusing to move to let people pass. It was quite worrying, in fact I won’t be visiting there until the infection rate comes down considerably.

The reasons for cases rising more in some areas than other are structural, large areas of poverty, with the health problems that go with that. Multigenerational households living in small houses built for nuclear families. More business premises, employing people in conditions where proper separation is difficult, if not impossible. Overcrowding generally and the lack of open spaces where people can get out and exercise without being close to other people.

Add to that a disorganised and chaotic response by government who constantly, almost randomly,change the rules we have to live within until it is almost impossible to know what is and is not required. Then there are all the exceptions to every rule that suggest they do not matter much

Consider the rule about masks. It is known that the COVID is spread mainly by droplets in the air from people's noses and mouths. So we are told to wear masks. Except for all the exceptions: see www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own. It is amazing that there is anyone wearing a mask the exemptions are so many.

If mask wearing is that important it should be mask up or stay home or do not do the activity. Just as we said to those who shielded during the first lockdown. Currently, with so many exemptions it just suggests that masking might help, but not if it causes any inconvenience, which is not really very reassuring. The same with six people from six separate households meeting. If one has COVID it can be passed on to 6 households. Much better to limit meetings to 2 households, ignore numbers, and only 2 different households in one week. Again, the restraint is irrational as it both constrains and tells people they can socialise widely.

If people are to obey rules they need to be able to respect those making the rules and be confident that every rule introduced has been thoroughly thought through and is rational and reasonable. None of those conditions has been present at any time since COVID first appeared over 9 months ago.

Is it surprising people ignore the rules?

The infection rate was rising in most of these towns and cities well before the university termstarted, soI do not think students can be blamed for the rise.
I disagree there in some respects M0nica. Exeter in Devon had almost zero cases until the university returned. Now all of a sudden it is in the red zone.

That's a really good point in your last paragraph M0nica about IT experts being so busy devising new systems that they aren't available to support the teaching staff on a day to day basis. Online learning was gradually advancing before covid, but it has now been forced to accelerate at breakneck speed which has left many academics floundering.