Need Advice & Opinions

I wouldn’t visit- once you start where does it end, you will stay for long periods I reckon and still worry (then there will be Christmas etc etc) and the inappropriate behaviour which we hope is simply caused by his dementia could escalate. This may be the reason his current neighbours aren’t getting involved. You have done a good and kind thing but can’t give him the 24/7 care he needs to keep him safe. I would certainly phone Social Services to report your concerns and leave your worries in their hands. Mention the former neighbour who has PoA - I have suspicions that she may be stealing his money and/or is a beneficiary of his will and wants to keep him out of a home to prevent the fees eating up her inheritance. If she is helping herself to his money this will come to light when he has to go into a home and his assets are assessed. Perhaps I have a nasty suspicious mind, but if this woman had his best interests at heart and nothing to hide she would follow his doctor’s advice and find a suitable care home for him. It’s strange that she no longer lives in the area but takes him a meal every day and despite seeing the scrapes he gets into, which could easily end with him getting lost scantily clad in the middle of winter, doesn’t want him to have full-time professional care. But report it and leave it. This is not your problem but you could easily turn it into a very bad situation for yourself and your family.

Donna what a kindly response to Ken’s initial predicament and well done for taking action to help him. ???

I’m in a slightly similar position to Ken’s friend, I give regular support to a man who has a Learning Disability, and that includes helping him to manage his finances. The family (his siblings) meet up with him reasonably often, but have never given him any practical support, so it’s left to me to help him with managing his life as best he can. I’m afraid that if someone outside his family, even with the very best of intentions, started to involve themselves in his life I think I would be disturbed. As it is I have a good relationship with my man’s brothers and they can see how much happier he is now, that his finances are transparent, and they trust me to act in his best interests.

Maybe just accept that you only have a brief snapshot of Ken’s life, but his friend has demonstrated her commitment to caring for him for a long time. Let it go.

Team no action here too. You know ONE SIDE of the story. He does have people who are responsible for his care and believe me its REALLY hard to judge what is going on fron one brief encounter.
I was on the receiving end of this with my late beloved Mum whose memory and capacity was very variable. I had a phone call one day from a lovely lady who had met mum standing at her gate and asking for a letter to be posted. She told this lovely lady that she had seen no one that day and didn't know how she would be able to get herself any dinner. The lady asked if she had any family and mum produced my phone number from her pocket where she kept it with her door key. Lovely lady phoned me and I was able to reassure her that she got 4 care visits a day (breakfast lunch dinner bed), also my older sister spent 4 days of every week with her and I went down overnight at weekends. Mum wasn't lying, she just got a thought on her head and everything else got forgotten. She wasn't left, she chose to stay in her own home, I would have had her to live with me but she wouldn't leave her house and still had the capacity to make those decisions.

But I remember and bless that lovely lady and bless you too.

what is ringing alarm bells is that she was power of attorney not the sons ( who want him to go into care) is she manipulating his finances to her own end and that is why she wants him home where she can do this?
My thought too, 62Granny

As soon as you said you offered him a lift, I thought 'No! Don't do that, you could be putting yourself in danger'. He may not be as sweet and lovely as he seemed.

He has a friend with POA (strange when he has family) and family and really, you can do nothing as you are a new acquaintance.
Soon he may have to go into a home for his own safety but it is not your problem and you can do nothing.

It was a brief encounter, nothing more.

Witzend

How kind of you to help and show such concern, OP.

Sadly I have far too much close-family experience of dementia (a parent, an in law and an aunt) and TBH it does sound to me as if Ken now needs the sort of 24/7 care and supervision that can only realistically be provided in a care home.

Otherwise there will be increased wandering and getting lost - particularly hazardous in winter - probably locking himself out, not to mention the dangers of trying to use a gas cooker, if he has one, forgetting and starting a fire.

And then all too likely having hidden door keys somewhere, and being unable to get out - this sort of thing is often a real danger. Both our family dementia sufferers were forever hiding things, and keys were a ‘favourite’. And of course they could never remember where they’d hidden them, or even that they’d hidden them at all.

He may well do very well in a dementia care home - my mother’s - incidentally by no means the most expensive - was extremely good. By the time the sort of stage you describe is reached, even 4 visits a day are unlikely to be enough to keep the person safe - and not just that, but with someone on hand to soothe and reassure - fretfulness and worrying about often imaginary things are a frequent feature of dementia.

Contrary to what you often read or hear, and what some people like to believe, care homes are certainly not all hellholes.

I hope the op finds your post as positive and helpful as I did Witzend

(Just watched Father with Anthony Hopkins )

Thank you for sharing your anecdote with us Donna
I’m sure you can trust your own instincts and hope you will come back and tell us how grateful “Ken “ is for your kindness.

Your loving kindness is to be admired. It’s actually what I might do having offered to pay for an old chap’s shopping recently at the supermarket. It turned out he’d forgotten where he’d put his money in a capacious wallet so all turned out ok in the end.
I’m intrigued to know how Ken can live on the edge of town but got himself to the supermarket?
I expect the security guard knows him quite well?
In your shoes, I’d stand back but if you feel compelled to do anything, get in touch with social services or the appropriate authorities. Take care not to be thought of as “interfering.”
If you do decide to visit him, don’t wear anything low cut! Dementia can blur the edges of what’s acceptable to say.

62grannh very dodgy for a neighbour to have power of attorney when the man has family
I m afraid I m in the ‘do no more’ camp his family needs to get him into the safety of a home and get that power of attorney off a neighbour

@62Granny
That was my thought too - the ex-neighbour could be stealing from him. He's at risk & needs to go into a care home ASAP.

Social Services can over rule her if they think it is in his best interest.

I would tread very carefully, seems funny she doesn't want him to go into a nursing home when obviously he would be well cared for there , what is ringing alarm bells is that she was power of attorney not the sons ( who want him to go into care) is she manipulating his finances to her own end and that is why she wants him home where she can do this? By all means visit but I would try and find out telephone numbers for his son's and ring them or inform Social Services if you have any concerns. But don't let your heart rule your head.

You have been much kinder and helpful than many would have been and I think you have done enough.
He has family and a neighbour who looks out for him and carers so he is not alone.
You should just feel good about yourself for helping this old man and leave well enough alone.

Not to trust

Team "no action"

I bet it's not the first time he is assisted by a good samaritan.

Diminhed mental faculties are written all over your post.
If you truly want to do something, I would call a social worker, but that's it.

I would also warn to trust the book by its cover.
Watch put for your own safety

This gentleman clearly has dementia and he is just wandering off on his own without telling anyone. The only way anyone can stop that is by locking him in the house, which is obviously out of the question.

As he is known to the police and social services, there is nothing you can do and I do not feel that you getting involved will be helpful to anyone.

If I sound hard that is because I worked with Age Concern (as was) for a decade and often had calls from worried people in situations like this and our advice was, once we knew the person concerned, was known to the authorities, and had someone responsible for their affairs then things were best left alone.

A little anecdote about AC who do not visit 'poor old elderly parent who needs them so much'

I was asked to visit a poor old man recently widowed, 6 children, none of whom visited. He appeared a lovely man, missing his wife, painting a picture of a devoted couple, all quite delightful.

Some months later I visited another client in the same road. As she answered the door, she looked over my shoulder at someone walking down the road and I turnd to see this poor old man. She turned to me said, 'thats old Mr Smith, nasty man used to beat his wife and kids'. It turned out that he had recently been banned from the working man's club, for arguing with someone and hitting them with his stick.

Poor dear old men whoe family do not visit often have a past as nasty violent younger men.

I am sorry to say that I am with the 'do nothing' brigade (not originally, I'm sure you were right to help)
I agree that you could put yourself in a very difficult situation from many different points of view.

Assuming the lady you spoke to is genuine, she is more likely to arrange a proper care home for him if there is no other support. If she thinks you might help, you might find yourself taking on more than you can cope with.
And however genuine she seems, she may not be correct in what she is saying. Indeed the fact that she wants him kept out of a home, which means he wanders around in a vulnerable position makes me wonder about her comprehension.

If you decide to ring Social Care and report your concern for a vulnerable adult, you can do so anonymously (and I bet you won't be the first to ring about Ken)

I do hope this helps

I agree with Geekesse. You are a kind person but best to leave this to those already involved.

Sometimes, the kindest thing is to help someone in practical ways, but sometimes, the kindest thing is to do nothing, and I think this is a ‘do nothing’ situation.

The chap has a family and carers, and enough financial means to live in a nice house. Those who know him best can make decisions about his care. Your kindness to him during this incident does you credit, but there is no cause to continue any involvement with him.

If you start visiting and making care suggestions, his family and carer are very likely to wonder why you are trying to make friends with an elderly, confused man, and they are likely to assume you are trying to take his money or abuse him in some way. This could cause real problems in his family, or between his family and carer, just when they need to work together to help him.

He won’t value your friendship, or feel any loss if he never sees you again. You did a kind and generous act, but you should now stop concerning yourself with him and allow his life to go on as before with the support from his family and carer.

What a very sad situation. I can understand the reluctance of Ken’s friend to start the process for a move to a residential home. However, having been through this with my Mum I feel it’s time, before he harms himself or unwittingly others. Unfortunately I don’t know how you can proceed PinkCakes has made a sensible suggestion, his friend would be wise to start researching appropriate local homes, before a crisis with emergency care into ‘a home’.
My Mums dementia care home was lovely and the subsequent nursing home. But, not all we looked at were and sometimes it’s availability of a room too. Nothing lost if you tried to meet up with this friend and have a chat raising your concerns, as others said, he could have got in anyone’s car, not safe for him or the driver. Good luck.

How kind of you to help and show such concern, OP.

Sadly I have far too much close-family experience of dementia (a parent, an in law and an aunt) and TBH it does sound to me as if Ken now needs the sort of 24/7 care and supervision that can only realistically be provided in a care home.

Otherwise there will be increased wandering and getting lost - particularly hazardous in winter - probably locking himself out, not to mention the dangers of trying to use a gas cooker, if he has one, forgetting and starting a fire.

And then all too likely having hidden door keys somewhere, and being unable to get out - this sort of thing is often a real danger. Both our family dementia sufferers were forever hiding things, and keys were a ‘favourite’. And of course they could never remember where they’d hidden them, or even that they’d hidden them at all.

He may well do very well in a dementia care home - my mother’s - incidentally by no means the most expensive - was extremely good. By the time the sort of stage you describe is reached, even 4 visits a day are unlikely to be enough to keep the person safe - and not just that, but with someone on hand to soothe and reassure - fretfulness and worrying about often imaginary things are a frequent feature of dementia.

Contrary to what you often read or hear, and what some people like to believe, care homes are certainly not all hellholes.

I haven't read all of your post, but as soon as you mentioned that Ken had mentioned breasts, etc., I immediately thought he's got dementia.

It's lovely of you to care, and I'd suggest contacting your local Social Services office, ask for the Safeguarding Department, and tell them of your concerns.

I worked in the care sector for 20+ years, and sadly, too many people like Ken live alone without any real help.

you were probably not the first person to help this confused man while he was at the shops. . Be very careful who you let into your car is my advice, if he had touched you you would've been in a difficult situation. Not everyone is as sweet as we think just because they are old. Let the people who know him take care of him.

What do your own family say?

Pass on your story to the Social Work Deprtment, telling them the name and address, and about the neighbour, but don't add yourself to his friends and good neighbours. He has carers and a neighbour seeing that he gets food and care. The sandwich wasn't essential for his survival - the old neihbour was about to provide his tea, and it may be that he is a regular visitor to the supermarket, where the Supervisor knows him well.

The Social work department may be able to get sessions in a day centre to keep him safe, and when it is necessary into permanent care. They too may know him well and be aware of his needs.

It sounds as though the Alzheimers is taking away his inhibitions, and you could be putting yourself into a tricky position if you are too trusting that he will always remember his good manners. I wouldn't advise you to go into the house with him alone, however nice he is.

If you want to give some of your time then go and visit. He will probably need to go into a home at some point but it is better for him that he stays in his own surroundings while he can.

I understand the family wanting him to go now as they cannot see him every day.

The last 2 places I have lived there has been someone with dementia in the road that we all kept an eye on until they needed to go into care.

Don’t go to visit with a critical eye, he has carers and a neighbour to check on his welfare, just go as visitor to spend time with him if you want to help.