Worried about my grandparents (is my GD depressed or just being selfish?)

How worrying for you. Has your Grandad actually lost weight from not eating? Is it possible that he has an eating disorder? Has anyone mentioned this to his Dr?
If your Nan rings the GP they will arrange for the Falls Team to come and see your Grandad and they are quite good at getting to the bottom of things. My mother becomes unsteady when she has a urine infection or her bloods are out of synch. Things like potassium or magnesium can be out of whack. Really the GP is the only person who can get the ball rolling for most medical complaints.

My mother used to fall down for no apparent reason and when I used to find her she could not explain how she fell, eating then became a problem also I would find food half eaten in cupboards , she was never diagnosed officially with dementia but it was certainly what she had. It doesn't always manifest itself as forgetting things but not making sensible decision even when people explain why you should ( eating & drinking) it can seem as if they are just being awkward for the sake of it. Try and get him checked out by his GP, perhaps someone else can go with him and explain your concerns.

That’s very kind of you to be caring for your GP’s health. Your grandad isn’t old, by any means, and you say he’s on no other meds. Could he have low sodium levels, caused by the lack of eating and drinking?

Maybe your gran could instigate a snack routine, something heathy but filling, along wi5 a drink, every two or three hours. Sometimes little and often is better.

A GP’s advice would be best, though, with someone letting the GP know beforehand what’s going on.

that's a tricky situation. not sure what to suggest.
it's nice that you are so concerned about your grandparents.
one thing i would say, is that neither your GM nor your father should be trying to get your GF up when he falls.
they should call an ambulance.
it might be an idea for you and/or your GM to keep a diary of when these incidents occur.
yelling at him of course will not help, whether he is depressed or not. though i can understand the frustration.

A few things to think about has he been tested for diabetics and the other thing if he’s sleeping a lot of the day is he having bad nights, perhaps sleep apnea, an underactive thyroid is another thing could he be VitD deficient
Blood tests only show results for what the doctor has asked to be tested so lots of things could be happening without blood tests showing them up

Let’s get this straight, your dad was out of order shouting and blaming your poor grandad I m sure he’s not throwing himself on the floor and trying for two hours to get up, on purpose.

A man of 72 is not normally falling all over the place, so there is seemingly a definite reason, either physically or mentally
Does he have any friends, or hobbies?

You say you used to be close to him can you not sit with him over a cuppa and see if he ll open up a bit ask some more specific questions not just ‘do you feel ok’ which he ll say ‘I m fine’ better still take him out to get some fresh air

It’s far from normal for a 72 year old man to be asleep most of the day

I’m not a doctor! But the first thing that came to my mind….like Bluebelle, was diabetes. Only a suggestion, but then again you say your GP has undergone all manner of tests.
I feel this needs further investigation before the next fall really does cause lasting injury. Good luck.

They ve done blood tests but it depends what blood tests ?

icanhandthemback

How worrying for you. Has your Grandad actually lost weight from not eating? Is it possible that he has an eating disorder? Has anyone mentioned this to his Dr?
If your Nan rings the GP they will arrange for the Falls Team to come and see your Grandad and they are quite good at getting to the bottom of things. My mother becomes unsteady when she has a urine infection or her bloods are out of synch. Things like potassium or magnesium can be out of whack. Really the GP is the only person who can get the ball rolling for most medical complaints.

Thank you for replying. I don't think he has lost weight to a noticeable degree, currently he's a bit overweight as far as I know. He's had a lot of bloods done, as recently as a few months ago, which were all normal, so I think we're wondering what else the GP could or would do in terms of physical investigations. But I totally agree that my Gran needs to get/keep the GP involved.

62Granny

My mother used to fall down for no apparent reason and when I used to find her she could not explain how she fell, eating then became a problem also I would find food half eaten in cupboards , she was never diagnosed officially with dementia but it was certainly what she had. It doesn't always manifest itself as forgetting things but not making sensible decision even when people explain why you should ( eating & drinking) it can seem as if they are just being awkward for the sake of it. Try and get him checked out by his GP, perhaps someone else can go with him and explain your concerns.

Thank you for replying. Honestly, I think we've all been worried about this as well. I think it's my Grandma's biggest fear, that he might have some kind of dementia. He's been to the GP and done the standard quick memory test that they do, which he passed. She seemed to think that if they suspect dementia they will refer him for a brain scan, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case in most situations? I didn't think a brain scan was a standard way of diagnosing dementia.

Besides that, they have been to the GP many times and apparently my Grandma explains what's been happening, his behaviour, etc. But then as soon as the doctor turns to my Grandad and asks what's going on, he says that he feels fine, and I think because he's clearly intelligent and articulate they just take his word for it and think my Gran is being neurotic. I can even see how she could come across that way since she's very anxious and highly-strung, but I know it's not that since I've witnessed some things for myself. But it's frustrating if this is what's happening whenever they speak to a doctor.

SueDonim

That’s very kind of you to be caring for your GP’s health. Your grandad isn’t old, by any means, and you say he’s on no other meds. Could he have low sodium levels, caused by the lack of eating and drinking?

Maybe your gran could instigate a snack routine, something heathy but filling, along wi5 a drink, every two or three hours. Sometimes little and often is better.

A GP’s advice would be best, though, with someone letting the GP know beforehand what’s going on.

Thanks for your comment. I do think it's very possible that the not eating and drinking is causing some metabolic (?) problems, but to me it's more a question of why he's not eating and drinking in the first place.

My Gran said she does try to remind him and she will even bring him water but he doesn't always drink it. If she tries to encourage him, he sometimes says that he can't drink that much, or he's feeling pressured, etc.

I can understand that it's difficult to drink when you're feeling like someone is making you do it, but on the other hand, I just don't understand a grown person with no obvious health conditions needing reminders to drink. That's the mystery for me. But I agree they need to speak to a GP.

Yes they do do brain scans for dementia planner but if he passed the memory test in the surgery I doubt it’s that

I know you say he’s had blood tests recently but what for ???

Can’you go to the surgery with him instead of your gran ?

welbeck

that's a tricky situation. not sure what to suggest.
it's nice that you are so concerned about your grandparents.
one thing i would say, is that neither your GM nor your father should be trying to get your GF up when he falls.
they should call an ambulance.
it might be an idea for you and/or your GM to keep a diary of when these incidents occur.
yelling at him of course will not help, whether he is depressed or not. though i can understand the frustration.

I always suggest to my Gran that she should call an ambulance because at least then, as I understand it, his GP will get some kind of report notifying them that an ambulance was called, and maybe they will start to notice that this is happening a lot.

But my Grandma is very anxious about coronavirus right now. Tonight when I suggested the ambulance she burst into tears because she was convinced that they'd take him into hospital and then he'd catch CV-19 and bring it back to her and they'd both die. (I know that probably sounds ridiculous but it's very hard to talk her round when she's talking like this...I've suggested that she also needs some help for her anxiety but I'm not sure if she's ready for that.)

Keeping a diary is definitely a good idea, I'll suggest that to my Gran. Thank you.

BlueBelle

A few things to think about has he been tested for diabetics and the other thing if he’s sleeping a lot of the day is he having bad nights, perhaps sleep apnea, an underactive thyroid is another thing could he be VitD deficient
Blood tests only show results for what the doctor has asked to be tested so lots of things could be happening without blood tests showing them up

Let’s get this straight, your dad was out of order shouting and blaming your poor grandad I m sure he’s not throwing himself on the floor and trying for two hours to get up, on purpose.

A man of 72 is not normally falling all over the place, so there is seemingly a definite reason, either physically or mentally
Does he have any friends, or hobbies?

You say you used to be close to him can you not sit with him over a cuppa and see if he ll open up a bit ask some more specific questions not just ‘do you feel ok’ which he ll say ‘I m fine’ better still take him out to get some fresh air

It’s far from normal for a 72 year old man to be asleep most of the day

Thank you, this is really helpful. I'm not actually sure what blood tests he has had. My Gran said he has always been a heavy sleeper and she thinks he's getting a lot of sleep at night, but if it's something like sleep apnea then I guess it could be affecting the quality of his sleep, regardless of how "long" he's sleeping.

He has never really had any friends, that probably sounds worrying but it's very much by choice. He's not a very social person and I'm quite similar so I can understand that. He has had hobbies in the past but since the pandemic started he mostly just seems to watch rugby, occasionally he will go for a walk with my Grandma.

I do really want to talk to him, I guess I'm just feeling awkward because we haven't spoken alone for...years? And I feel like it would be best to talk without my Gran around, no disrespect to her but she's a very strong personality and I would like to hear from him on his own. We might be going out this weekend so I'll see if I can get an opportunity.

denbylover

I’m not a doctor! But the first thing that came to my mind….like Bluebelle, was diabetes. Only a suggestion, but then again you say your GP has undergone all manner of tests.
I feel this needs further investigation before the next fall really does cause lasting injury. Good luck.

Thank you, I appreciate that

Thank you all for the comments so far. Sorry for not specifying re: the bloods. I would need to check with my Gran to know what he's had done and when, I'm sure she probably told me at the time but I can't remember off the top of my head.

I would be willing to go to the surgery with my Grandad. The problem is that my Grandad often refuses to go, and when he does, he basically says, "I'm fine and I'm not sure why we're here". My Gran is the one who lives with him and witnesses all of these episodes, so I would mostly just be reporting what she's already tried to tell the GP firsthand.

Quick update: my Gran texted me saying that she thought my Dad was being supportive. I think both of them (my Dad and my Gran) are leaning towards seeing this as either attention-seeking or inconsiderate behaviour. My Gran said she was going to call the GP tomorrow and I hope she's still going to do that because I do think he needs some sort of help or monitoring, I don't know what exactly but as other people have commented, it's not a normal situation. I think my main worry is that he's depressed (even if he's not talking about it) and if so, yelling at him will only make things worse.

Yelling at him will make everything worse not just depression
I m sure your grandad is not doing this for attention or to be awkward or selfish They sound in a right old pickle between them
Hes not likely to be taken into hospital, only for tests and the hospitals are very aware of precautions. However that probably won’t allay your nans fears of covid
does he get up washed and dressed normally ?

Could you go with them to the gp the visits sound pointless if your gran gets nervous and wound up and your grandad plays it all down
Or
Sit with your Nan and write down bullet points to tell the doctor which may help her to be precise and not waffle

1 falls asleep all day
2 numerous falls and can’t get up
3 doesn’t eat or drink
4 etc etc

BlueBelle

Yelling at him will make everything worse not just depression
I m sure your grandad is not doing this for attention or to be awkward or selfish They sound in a right old pickle between them
Hes not likely to be taken into hospital, only for tests and the hospitals are very aware of precautions. However that probably won’t allay your nans fears of covid
does he get up washed and dressed normally ?

Could you go with them to the gp the visits sound pointless if your gran gets nervous and wound up and your grandad plays it all down
Or
Sit with your Nan and write down bullet points to tell the doctor which may help her to be precise and not waffle

1 falls asleep all day
2 numerous falls and can’t get up
3 doesn’t eat or drink
4 etc etc

Yep, normally he gets up in the morning, gets dressed, has breakfast, but then within a couple of hours he's tired again and goes for a lie down, and then he's asleep until early evening. Then ideally they will have dinner together and watch TV, but they also go to bed early, so it sounds like he's not really awake for very much of the day.

One of my Gran's friends has suggested that he needs to set an alarm clock or she should wake him up, so that he can have a nap but isn't sleeping all day. From experience I know it's easy to get into a bad cycle where you're sleeping half the day, then sometimes not sleeping properly at night, but for me that tends to happen when I'm depressed...

My Gran does tend to make notes in preparation for medical phone calls, and sometimes I've helped her with that, like you said. I don't think she is waffling. She thinks the doctors aren't listening but I don't think it's necessarily that either. I get the impression that there's just such a big disconnect between what she's saying and my Grandad "seeming" fine on the day.

On the one hand I'm wondering how a doctor is meant to do anything if a patient is insisting he's fine and there's nothing obviously wrong, but on the other hand I'm sure they must come across situations like this, where the patient doesn't think anything is wrong but their spouse or relative thinks there is.

I agree that yelling is going to solve nothing. Unfortunately my Gran is very emotional and when she gets anxious, she expresses that by shouting. We are very close but throughout my childhood and teenage years we also had regular arguments because of how quickly she gets riled up. And of course she's scared about what's going on with my Grandad, on top of her other anxieties. I have tried to tell her that shouting and coming across as angry won't help, but that's asking her to change a lifetime's worth of behaviour so I don't hold out much hope there, as much as I keep trying...

Thanks again for your comments, BlueBelle

if you get a chance to speak to him on his own, could you ask him about his recent fall, because you read somewhere that people should not try to pull up other people who fall, that if they cannot right themselves then an ambulance should be called, as they are the experts at handling people correctly, and also have equipment.
ask him, what does he think, would that have been better for him.
loss of balance is a well known symptom of dementia. also difficulty in walking straight, or talking and walking at same time.
i don't think those basic memory questions are much help in this kind of situation.
i very much doubt that he is doing it to manipulate. he is probably not aware of anything concerning.
i wish you all the best.