DIL here, can I get some help understanding why there’s such an expectation of “alone time?”

No, I dont think functional alcoholics can provide good care of anybody.

Undoubtedly.
I'm just surprised how people will swing between the idea that she's fit to work or not.
As I said, glad she isn't nursing any of my loved ones. (At least I hope she's not!)

Whether or not she’s fit to work is her boss’s call. Whether she’s fit to look after a child is the parents’.

So, even if someone is a functioning or dry alcoholic, they're not ok to look after a baby, but they're fine to look after vulnerable, ill people?
My ex was a functioning alcoholic.
He functioned, but was still inebriated.

agnurse I agree with you she should not have the baby alone. I have said that in every post I have written on this thread.
The OP has stated that subject to conditions, she can visit her home. She has also stated that she likes the MIL and that she is a good nurse.

www.gransnet.com/forums/ask_a_gran/1299790-Grandparents-dont-help-or-make-effort?msgid=28995609#28995609

Grandparents need a set of 10 Commandments as they are not sure of what to do for best.

rafichagran

Depending on how much she's drinking, it is possible that her brain could have been affected by the alcoholism. B vitamin deficiencies are common in people with alcohol use disorder, and can result in brain damage. Sometimes this is permanent, as with Korsakoff's dementia.

Some of you have questioned how this woman can work as a nurse when she has a problem with alcohol. The answer is that about 90% of people with an alcohol use disorder are what is termed "functioning alcoholics". They hold down jobs. They raise families. Only about 10% of people with an alcohol use disorder are the stereotypical "skid row winos" who go around with a paper bag holding their bottle. As to whether she is truly fit to work as a nurse, I could not say without observing her practice. From what I understand, some people with an alcohol use disorder are capable of being extremely functional even when they are actively under the influence. I do note that my own licensing body requires us to report any medical or other conditions that would affect our ability to practice safely - and that would include an alcohol use disorder.

Even if she isn't actively drinking, that doesn't mean that she is safe to have the baby alone. It isn't uncommon for someone with a substance use disorder who isn't actively using to become what is sometimes termed a "dry drunk" - many of their problematic behaviours still persist, even in the absence of active substance use.

He is a grown man who has fathered a baby. It is time to cut the apron strings and for him to make it plain to his mother, as nicely as possible, that in his home and with his baby, your joint rules are paramount.

In my generation parents did not interfere in their children's lives once they grew up and left home and started families.

We hear so many stories now of grandmothers, to be and actual, are who seem to think they should be as involved in their grand childrens upbringing as they were in their children's.

She maay of course just be getting over excited about becoming a grandmother. but being quiet but firm is the way forward. just keep saying: our rules are and we expect both sets of grandparents to obey them.

Fiance is on my side but is reluctant to bring this up with his parents as he fears that his mother will not be understanding and will turn it into a "her parents get x so I should get the same" kind of thing, when realistically if my parents had the same issues they would have the same restrictions

So if she does that then ...

" Her/my parents get x. However that is not possible with you because:

*we are concerned about the smoke damaging babies health, as you know
*we are concerned about your need to drink. This is not safe for baby.

We know you don't agree with us. However that is our decision. There is no point discussing it further as we are happy with our decision.

End of conversation!

Yes this is hard for him BUT he is a father and his parental responsibilities have to trump his parental concerns.

You make the rules not your MiL and you and your partner should firmly make that clear to this lady.

Two of your unbreakable rules should be that the child should always be in a smoke free place and nobody looking after them should have drunk alcohol in the last 24 hours.

Anything this lady says about 'alone time' is total bunkum. It is offensive to all those grandparents who do not live close to their grandchildren, so rarely have any'alone time' with them when they are small but still have deep and loving relationships with their grandchildren. if this lady truly believes that she cannot have a good relationship with her grandchild unless she has 'alone time' almost from birth, indeed if she is not granted it she may as well have no relationship at all, then opt for that.

Let me repeat. Your child, your rules, OK

So he normalized alcoholism and he wants to do the same for his family

He needs urgent therapy.
You must do what is best for your child, not fiance

Hill to die on

Oh do not leave off hithere I may not agree with everything the OP wrote but it is crystal clear she is putting the baby first.
How do you know she is not a good nurse, she drinks on her day off, if it had affected her work, I hope it would have been picked up.
Yes she drinks, yes she smokes, a habit that I find smelly and disgusting, but it does not make her dangerous, the OP has already said she likes her, if she was dangerous I get the impression she would not get near the baby at all.

@Hithere- I agree with everything you've said and have explained this to my fiance. He agrees and is as invested in the safety of our children as I am, but the thought of having this talk with his mom is difficult because I do believe his childhood growing up around these behaviors has affected him greatly.

He feels a great deal of responsibility towards his mother's emotional well-being and her responses to anything that he does.

@User7777, I will be breastfeeding (as long as I am able to do so) so the alone time thing should be a non issue for quite some time- but it feels like my MIL sees it as a competition with my parents where if it is not exactly equal with all types of contact she is being shunned or getting the short end of the stick and I'm just not sure how to handle the situation.

When baby is older he will likely spend the night/spend time at my parents' house alongside his big sister, and I would love to be able to trust his parents for the same contact (as it gives us a wonderful break,) but unless they dramatically change their decades old habits that will unfortunately not be possible.

I don't know how to handle this with my MIL as I don't want to hurt her feelings but there seems to be no delicate way to say "you and FIL are alcoholics and your house reeks/is dangerous for a child to be in due to the cigarette smoke and residue."

Fiance is on my side but is reluctant to bring this up with his parents as he fears that his mother will not be understanding and will turn it into a "her parents get x so I should get the same" kind of thing, when realistically if my parents had the same issues they would have the same restrictions.

@FarNorth, absolutely! Even pre pregnancy, I have a very keen sense of smell, and I also have lung problems and am allergic to cigarette smoke myself. If she came in and had smoked in the clothes she was wearing I would know right away and we will be making it clear that anyone who smells like cigarette smoke entering our house will be non negotiably asked to leave.

@grandtanteJE65- They are absolutely welcome to come visit at our house, as often as my parents will be visiting. The only thing they can't do is have the kids alone (because of the alcoholism) or have us to their house (because of the smoking.) They are welcome to our house once a week for the first few weeks, and then more often after that once we have a schedule established.

@GillT57- It is not a few drinks on her day off. It is one or two entire bottles of whiskey between her and her husband on their days off- it is completely and utterly drunk every single time they have a day off. That is absolutely, factually alcoholism. Also, none of the rules about visiting at OUR HOME, which is the only place visiting will be happening for anyone for awhile, are specific to her or don't include her. My fiance and I just don't want people over every day while baby is quite new and are establishing once a week as a reasonable frequency for grandparents for the first few weeks.

Taylor2016- Holding a newborn is honestly not "helpful" to new parents at all. Making food and dropping it off without the expectation of staying/holding baby would be helpful. Offering to do some laundry or dishes or vacuum a bit would be helpful. Offering to do a grocery run would be helpful. Offering to come and focus on playing with older sister would be helpful. Holding the baby is just for the fun of holding a baby that you want to hold.
Of course, as a new grandparent they will WANT to hold the baby, and that is what we have set up the expectation of a weekly visit for, but coming to my house to take my baby out of my arms and sit on my couch holding him is not what I would consider helpful. (Which is why we are only allowing grandparents to visit in the first few weeks, and only once a week.)

I would never assume she is too irresponsible to simply wear a clean shirt to our house and not smoke before coming in to see him.

From my knowledge of smokers, I'd assume she would smoke outside just before coming into your house.
You need to make your expectation crystal clear to her.

OP

Your fiance wasnt raised by his mother. But now she is being entitled and demanding to your fiance and your kid.
Dont you see how it doesnt make sense?

Does your fiance fit any of the criteria for acoa - adult children of alcoholics?

She has to earn and show she puts her gc first, not her addictions.

She is not a good nurse! She is an long term alcoholic and her brain has been affected by it.

Why are you giving the same privileges your parents have to her too? What has she done to deserve them?

I would recommend your fiance and you attend meetings of alcoholic anon and open your eyes how dangerous she is

Honestly this is a you and fiance problem. Allowing harmful chemicals around your child, even supervised, is putting your mil first, not your child.

DiscoDancer1975- no, I would not be asking this if they didn't have these issues. I won't be sending the new LO to stay the night anywhere for the first year or more of his life as we just aren't comfortable with that (with anyone,) but we very much value the break we get when ,my daughter occasionally has sleepovers with my parents and would love to be able to trust the kids with his parents alone in the same way when the baby is old enough.

Like I said, I DO really like his mom as a person- she is a bit pushy at times (not just about baby,) but she has a good heart, just a lot of vices that make her a bad candidate for the kids being at her house.

I am even open to (eventually) having them come to OUR house and watch the kids for us to have a date night or the like- the difference being that they wouldn't have access to alcohol at our house, and certainly wouldn't be smoking indoors.

I think it's a safety issue. I would never go near a newborn due to infection I might pass on unwittingly . Baby will be too small to cope with cig smoke. You could breast feed, one way to keep baby close until you decide otherwise.

Does it, or expects this.

Thanks for the replies telmey I think the poster upthread was right, all families are different, and you will get many different replies. I agree the baby should not have alone time with MIL, and I dont know anyone who does it expects this.
If it was me, the visiting would not bother me, but again all families are not the same. Good luck with the baby.

Rafichagran, you have misinterpreted what I said. I don't mean she has to bring a new shirt to my house and change in front of us- that would be ridiculous. Just asking that she wear a shirt that has not been smoked in when she comes to see him.

However, when we are visiting fiance's grandpa 30 minutes away and MIL/FIL/fiance's uncles and aunts who smoke are up there as well, they will need to either bring a new shirt to change into after they go out for a smoke or expect to not hold him again if they do go out, as he won't be getting held by anyone who is wearing a top that they have smoked in.

They do not have good judgment when it comes to alcohol (and frankly I think it's crazy for a nurse in this day and age to be smoking, especially inside her house, knowing the health issues from that,) but I would never assume she is too irresponsible to simply wear a clean shirt to our house and not smoke before coming in to see him. She is a good person with a good heart, and is not stupid, but has some serious vices.

@DillytheGardener- absolutely! The plan is once a week for grandparents for the first 3-6 weeks. Extended family will have to wait a few weeks to see him for the first time, until we are feeling up to more visitors. Grandparents will be allowed to come see him the day we get home, and once a week after that until we are feeling established, at which point they are welcome to come see him for a bit a few times a week as long as they aren't trying to come over every day. (That includes my own parents- fiance and I are both very introverted and just don't want people here daily no matter who they are.)

@Bigberthal- Both sets of our parents will be invited to come see the baby the day we get home from the hospital, and will be allowed to come see him once a week after that point until we have established a routine. The only people who will be waiting 3 weeks (or more) are extended family. (This includes our aunts and uncles, cousins, etc.) Once a week feels more than reasonable to both my fiance and I, and we don't see a reason that more often than that would be necessary when baby is so small.

I believe you misinterpreted what I said about visiting rules, but to answer your question no- they will not be flexible.