PMQs - is it make or break today?

GrannyGravy13

Dickens this Conservative has critical thinking skills as do many others. Which is why some of us are dismayed at the infighting of the Labour Party.

A strong Country needs a strong government and an equally strong opposition, neither of which are evident in the U.K. at this time.

What would you class as 'strong opposition' GG13?

Perhaps you could give us some examples of what you think a 'strong opposition' would be doing right now?

The infighting in the Labour part is nothing compared to the infighting in the Conservative party at the moment. To me the shadow cabinet look like a government in waiting made up of proper grown up people.

GrannyGravy13

Dickens this Conservative has critical thinking skills as do many others. Which is why some of us are dismayed at the infighting of the Labour Party.

A strong Country needs a strong government and an equally strong opposition, neither of which are evident in the U.K. at this time.

Dickens this Conservative has critical thinking skills

... I wish posters would direct their comments to the individual who actually said they didn't have critical-thinking ability ... it was me who challenged the idea. And I'm not a Conservative voter...

I agree with you about the in-fighting within the Labour party and from what I can see it's destined to continue, rendering the party unelectable.

Actually I think it’s perfectly possible for the PM to not know
( on the night of 18th Dec) that there would be drinks etc for the staff if he wasn’t there.It’s not a nine to five job there, there are lots of staff and lots of rooms.
As I said earlier, if he did know about it or gave it his blessing then that’s another matter.
It’s not a question of lack of critical thinking ....it’s simply a possibility that the staff decided they were going to have drinks together that night.
If he has lied about knowing then it will come out, there are no end of leaks, but hating Johnson and wanting him to have to resign ( just because you want it) isn’t critical thinking either.

Dickens this Conservative has critical thinking skills as do many others. Which is why some of us are dismayed at the infighting of the Labour Party.

A strong Country needs a strong government and an equally strong opposition, neither of which are evident in the U.K. at this time.

Kali2

Dickens ''Allegra Stratton has resigned so I think that will be the beginning of the end of the matter. Certainly for many Tory voters.'' - I truly don't think so for a large section of the Cons Party, and certainly not for the others. Everyone is aware she was sacrificed to save Johnson- and I really do not think it is going to work, for the vast majority of the population- as said, Cons included- those with a conscience and any sense of integrity and humanity.

... not sure, really, what to think. You might be right - she was the sacrificial lamb. Who knows... I really don't. But it wouldn't surprise me if it is the end of the matter. It will be for some...

We'll have to wait and see.

Dickens ''Allegra Stratton has resigned so I think that will be the beginning of the end of the matter. Certainly for many Tory voters.'' - I truly don't think so for a large section of the Cons Party, and certainly not for the others. Everyone is aware she was sacrificed to save Johnson- and I really do not think it is going to work, for the vast majority of the population- as said, Cons included- those with a conscience and any sense of integrity and humanity.

GrannyGravy13

Dickens Conservative voters are as varied and educated as those who vote for the other parties.

Lumping them altogether as dumb is just plain lazy…

... which is why I challenged the notion that they lacked critical-thinking skills...

Dickens Conservative voters are as varied and educated as those who vote for the other parties.

Lumping them altogether as dumb is just plain lazy…

Some people will stick up for Boris no matter what he does. Incredible lack of critical thinking, but there you go.

... not sure it's lack of critical thinking skills - which implies that Tory-voters are rather dumb which I don't believe they are - I think it's more a case of my party, right or wrong. Some recognise that BJ is an obfuscating liar, but to them, the alternative is much worse.

And don't forget, for many, he's delivered the Brexit they craved, and the possibility of a pro-EU party getting into power is a definite no-no. I know Starmer would probably want a more cordial relationship with the EU, and has talked about "making Brexit work" but I don't think that appeals to die-hard Brexiters, nor eager Remainers. In fact I think the "make Brexit work" mantra is just as bad as the "get Brexit done" incantation... but that's just a personal opinion.

Allegra Stratton has resigned so I think that will be the beginning of the end of the matter. Certainly for many Tory voters.

My favourite part was when Starmer calmly said that even Ant and Dec were ahead of the PM on this !!

And didn’t the Johnson’s admit that someone had been staying with them over the Christmas period?

What on earth would make you say "Enough!" from this lot, lemongrove?

lemongrove - get real, of course he knew!

well that was interesting. The wrong party and leader are in power, that's for sure.

There was another party in the BJ and Carries flat too 5 days before. You couldn't make it up!

Some people will stick up for Boris no matter what he does. Incredible lack of critical thinking, but there you go.

lemongrove

Wheniwasyourage

As for the "playing politics" nonsense, which I too find infuriating, they are politicians! What else are they there to do except politics? It's like accusing NHS staff of "playing medicine" or a shop assistant of "playing shops".

When it concerns the health of the nation, as in the recent and still ongoing Covid epidemic, or anything as momentous, politicians usually pull together and don’t constantly make waves or generally undermine the Government.That is what Johnson means by Starmer playing politics for the last 18 months.
In normal times, political point scoring is considered the done thing from the Opposition.

There should have been an all party emergency government.

When it concerns the health of the nation, as in the recent and still ongoing Covid epidemic, or anything as momentous, politicians usually pull together and don’t constantly make waves or generally undermine the Government.That is what Johnson means by Starmer playing politics for the last 18 months.

From the top of my head, the accusations of "playing politics" has been used against Starmer on other issues.

Do you think if the Tory party were in Opposition that they would not be doing the same?

The 2008 financial crisis - an important issue for the whole nation - was frequently blamed on Labour's overspending. Osborne ultimately retracted and admitted it was a banking crisis. Was that not "playing politics" at a time of national crisis?

lemongrove

Wheniwasyourage

As for the "playing politics" nonsense, which I too find infuriating, they are politicians! What else are they there to do except politics? It's like accusing NHS staff of "playing medicine" or a shop assistant of "playing shops".

When it concerns the health of the nation, as in the recent and still ongoing Covid epidemic, or anything as momentous, politicians usually pull together and don’t constantly make waves or generally undermine the Government.That is what Johnson means by Starmer playing politics for the last 18 months.
In normal times, political point scoring is considered the done thing from the Opposition.

As Starmer pointed out, the Labour party have consistently voted with the government when it came to measures connected with issues of Public Health.

The days of all getting behind the PM, even if he's a wastrel, because this country needs us all to pull togetheer, those days are long gone. If the PM is a liar with no regard for the people he is meant to be serving, he can't complain when the opposition point it out.

If the PM wasn’t there at Number Ten on the night of Dec 18th. And the staff were playing whilst the cat was away.....how should that affect the way people view the PM?

Perhaps because of the way he has consistently tried to brush of the allegations as if they were of no concern?

however I don’t like trial by Ant and Dec or The Mirror.

... or Facebook, come to that. I agree. But if BJ had dealt with the matter immediately - a simple "we'll look into it" would have sufficed, instead of the denials and obfuscation - this would possibly be old news by now...

Lemon you don't really think that an event could have been held at No.10, home of the country's prime minister, without his knowledge, whether he was there or not?

It will come out eventually that caterers, police etc were on duty and saw the comings and goings.

The idea that whilst the cat was away .....

Wheniwasyourage

As for the "playing politics" nonsense, which I too find infuriating, they are politicians! What else are they there to do except politics? It's like accusing NHS staff of "playing medicine" or a shop assistant of "playing shops".

When it concerns the health of the nation, as in the recent and still ongoing Covid epidemic, or anything as momentous, politicians usually pull together and don’t constantly make waves or generally undermine the Government.That is what Johnson means by Starmer playing politics for the last 18 months.
In normal times, political point scoring is considered the done thing from the Opposition.

Greta

Boris Johnson will just say whatever comes into his head and try to wriggle out of it. He has often got away with that and I think Lindsey Hoyle as been weak as a speaker. We've heard heartbreaking stories from people who could not see dying relatives/go to funerals. Surely, this latest revelation of the Christmas party at no 10 will change many people's view of our PM. If it doesn't we have become a very uncaring nation.

If the PM wasn’t there at Number Ten on the night of Dec 18th
And the staff were playing whilst the cat was away.....how should that affect the way people view the PM?
On the other hand, if it were proven that he was actually there or gave it his blessing, that’s another matter.
Certainly it needs the investigation he says will now happen, and the truth will come out, however I don’t like trial by Ant and Dec or The Mirror.

The most explosive question today was from William Wragg, TORY MP, who asked in relation to the possible implementation of Plan B:

Is the Prime Minister aware that very few will be convinced by this diversionary tactic?

There were a few oohs & aahs in the Commons.

Very brave of him!

I have put politics live on from earlier today, so hopefully it is on here...