Daughter doesn't list me as 'mum' in her phone anymore

Your D has been diagnosed with complex PTSD no doubt due to the 9 years of abuse she suffered at the hands of her father. It's not uncommon for adults who witnessed and/or experienced abuse in childhood, to be drawn to abusers in their adult relationships.

You say the men she's had relationships with, you'd have passed by. I don't want to be harsh but I'm not sure what to make of that especially as you were taken in by an abusive partner who fathered your child and you stayed with for 11 years.

Getting this diagnosis at the age of 43 for trauma experienced in childhood, makes me think that she has spent many years hiding the impact that her childhood and abusive adult relationships have had on, her for the majority of her life. This could explain why she hides any anger she has toward you.

Maybe she simply doesn't know how to express it? Maybe she's afraid of what she might say? Maybe she's not sure if you'll be receptive, or maybe it's a combination of all 3. You say you don't know how to talk to her either so maybe joint counselling would be something to consider.

You say she'd "have been an excellent wife and mother but neither of these things have happened for her and (you) don't think she's the marrying sort"! I would have thought that her experience of men including her father, would deter a lot of women. You say you've never had "a successful relationship" with her, but isn't that only to be expected?

Your younger D has given you a good place to start by telling you that you don't show her your appreciation and gratitude for all she does, and don't ask her anything about her personal life. In addition, have you ever talked to her about her father, ever given her the opportunity to tell you how she felt at the time, and how she still feels about the abuse she suffered? More importantly, have you ever told her how guilty you feel and how sorry you are?

Your D is there for you, helping you to the point of showing "signs of stress and exhaustion", along with her sister. You're listed on her 'phone by your name, rather than as mum but at least you're there; at least you have her in your life.

Be thankful for that, there are so many parents who have no contact with their AC at all, who just dream of being contacted by their AC and wouldn't care if they were called mum or dad, just as long as they were contacted.

Is this it? Your only complaint is that your eldest Daughter doesn't list you as "Mum" in her phone contacts?
What do you want to happen now, after years of not communicating properly, clearly not spending a long time asking about her and her life (as confirmed by her Sister) or attempting, before it's too late, to try to put to rest all the sadness and distress that she has had to suffer in her life up to now? Do you want a proper relationship with her, because some of the things that you say are really odd, selfish or quite detached when set down in print.

You confirm that she (just dealing with the eldest in question) makes huge efforts in time and support for you. You confirm that she is suffering from PTSD and you are scared of how angry she must be over the damage which her Father was allowed to do. Allowed by you, of course, the Mother and the Adult - irrespective of what you worried you might lose. If you both can get close to accepting that the past is another country but that if you both want it hard enough, you may be able to put some stuff right in her head and get close to her, then surely you need to say what it is you would dearly love to do about this situation, and speak to her about it. There is no time to lose, you have wasted enough time. If you can't or won't communicate then there is nothing.

Taking the view that she may have been a good Mother, a good Wife should not be your concern or affair. You speak about her bad relationships with the surety of someone who would have got it right. Well, you never got it right and when faced with an appalling situation for your infant child, you did nothing about it until she was 11. No wonder she is stressed and mixed up and angry. No wonder she has been involved in abusive relationships - it seems that she had a good teacher. Surely you can see that and the fact that she has probably felt in life that she's really not worth much more.

You need to decide what you want from any relationship with her and you need to ask and listen and speak and support and begin to pay back the love and concern and help that she has offered you. She doesn't need to be 'let off' visiting you for a few weeks, she needs to be able to feel that she's welcome to visit or not visit her Mum and that nothing can change the warmth that you are prepared to show her, home or away. She's clearly got a good heart since she is hosting a refugee (?). Start appreciating her for not just all that she has gone through in her childhood which must have affected her throughout life, but the Daughter she is now. It doesn't matter what she calls you, if you want to get close you can only do that by talking, listening and telling her over and over how sad and sorry you are for what your inaction and poor decisions put her through. If you're lucky, she'll start to forgive you and you will have a relationship - if you do nothing there's no hope for that.

Well said Smileless.

And Grandmafrench.

OP

Do you realize how self centered your post is?

You are lucky to have your eldest's support despite everything that happened to her (you hold part of the responsibility here too) and you get stuck on "mum"?

Absolutely well done Smileless and Grandmafrench. I could not have said it better myself.

Swallowsong - Have you ever spoken to her about it, acknowledged your part in it at all and/or validated her feelings? Or were you hoping to pass the complete blame on your ex husband, bury it under the carpet and play at ‘happy families’? Sorry but you cannot do that - as an adult you had a choice (however hard it may have been), but your daughter didn’t.

You need to acknowledge your part in all this. If you’re worried about starting the conversation then write a letter and be honest and open. It will be hard and it will be painful and it may take some time. But you owe her (and her sister) that at the very least.

I speak as someone who has been in your daughter’s shoes tho my mother didn’t leave my father and has no interest in validating my feelings - she much prefers to play the victim in it all. Please don’t be like my mother - your daughter is hurting.
You have a chance to be a proper mother to her - it’s down to you. Yes there may well be hurtful things said and many tears - but you need to listen and take ownership of it before it’s too late.
I wish you well

You say she no longer lists you as "Mum" on her phone - how do you know she ever has?
Maybe this is not new at all and just how she has always done it. This may be nothing to worry about.

Poor girl to have PTSD due in all likelihood to the years of abuse that you watched and did nothing about.

I’m sorry , but I’m surprised she wants to be in the same room as you.

You have a lot of apologising to do.

“It wasn’t something we did back then”.

It was the 1980s/90s, not the 1950s. I’m actually embarrassed for you, reading that. I’m not surprised you aren’t listed in her phone as mum, I’m surprised you’re listed at all.

is this a reversal ?
reads like it.
is OP in fact the daughter, writing as the mum ?

I was married in 1970 and found out within a fortnight that my husband was abusive. Divorce didn't seem to be the 'done thing' then, at least not where I lived, so I put up with things - no children to consider then. By the time OP's daughter was born things were very different so I don't find staying in the marriage until the daughter was 11 excusable.

I do understand your reluctance to open a can of worms. You probably feel that if you start the conversation, you’ll hear a lot of things you don’t want to hear.
But she sounds very kind, and a good daughter, and perhaps you might encourage her to open up a bit. Don’t be defensive, some of it probably is down to you, we all make mistakes.
As for the name thing, I really can’t see why that’s significant, wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.

I do totally understand that your daughter is struggling as a result of her past but she and her sister have clearly been a big help to you.

You also have been very unwell and may be putting more importance on this than it warrants. Don't forget we all become a bit focussed on ourselves when we are ill and haven't yet come to terms with the changes our illness inevitably brings.

I would try to focus on the positive help you have, be sincerely apologetic (without excuses) about the past and be sure to thank her. Let her know how much you love her for herself too. She is suffering and needs to know that your thoughts are about her (and her sister) and not just about you.

After all, in the scheme of things it's not the greatest thing is it?
Good luck.

Speak to the truth to both daughters. Tell them exactly what happened in the past . Take some responsibility, admit mistakes and apologize! You have two daughters who care for your welfare , show them and tell them how much you love them . Please don't flip over not being listed as Mum. You have bigger issues to resolve. Good luck, bite the bullet and speak honestly to your daughters.

Because tone is impossible to convey through text, please read my reply to you as if it's coming from a loving friend, as that's how it was written.

I think you should start saying "thank you" to your eldest daughter, try maybe once a day.

Telling her not to come by for a period of time isn't really showing thanks, though I can tell it was your genuine attempt at doing so. But all it (her taking a break for a bit) would do is temporarily stay the work she does and let it accrue for her to take on at a later date. As when she begins caring for you again, I'm assuming she will need to, in addition to the usual routine, do all that was put off. And she will also need to tend to any problems or complications with your health that arose in her absence (not good, your health is important). Which, I think would be sure to occur, due to, as you have said, the quality of care she provides is unable-to-be-matched.

I very much understand that you were trying to show appreciation by telling her to relax and take a break for a while, however the reality is that it, in practice, would not be good for either of you. You, in the immediate sense, regarding your health; her in the long-term, regarding what I wrote above. So please, look her in the eye and lay a gentle hand on her arm, and say "thank you". It would mean a lot to her, and I think to you too.

I wish you the best. Take care.

She has had a string of unsuccessful relationships you would pass by? But you didnt, you didn't protect your daughter for 9 years.

She does so much for you, what more is it that you want from her?

You sound like you dont think much of her honestly and you are more upset about the things she is not doing in your relationship rather than all the things she does do for you.

Listen to your younger daughter. Praise her more, thank her more, appreciate her more.

All the problems she is faving stems from growing up exposed to and not protected from abuse. Let her heal from that at her own pace and be a loving supportive mother... Then perhaps you will get the title back.

She's had a string of unsuccessful or abusive relationships with men I'd have passed by............................

is it any wonder your daughter hasn't maintained a relationship? You were with a violent and abusive man. You allowed him to be violent and abusive to your daughter from her being a toddler. I'm surprised she even talks to you at all. As for her not listing you as Mum, you weren't much of a mum to her for the first 11 years of her life, by the sounds of it.

Your post has bought up terrible images in my mind, I can't imagine the horrors your husband inflicted on your poor baby daughter. Is he still alive?

You need to beg her forgiveness, write her a letter and tell her the truth - that you were afraid.

I feel for your daughter I really do, poor little girl being thrown about by her father from the age of two years old! I find it very concerning that you say you couldn’t have done anything about the abuse, I also have a daughter the same age as yours and was married in mid seventies, I also divorced mine,you say it upset you that she doesn’t list you as mum but you have to think about her the abuse has affected her deeply! You say she does a hundred jobs for you and does them efficiently she’s obviously got a good heart, it’s taken your youngest daughter to tell you that you don’t thank the eldest one enough or ask about her life, that really made me sad as did this post, I cannot believe what I’m reading here you say you don’t think she’s the marrying sort she’s had a string of abusive or unsuccessful relationships that you! Would pass by. But you yourself stayed in an abusive relationship, wow that’s very judgemental, if it was me I’d be writing her a heartfelt letter telling her how appreciative you are for her helping you etc etc, you say you can’t speak to her, I think you owe her! It’s never ever too late swallowsong, sorry to hear you have been in hospital

others have covered why there are probably issues in her relationship with you - but on the actual question about what you are listed in her phone as - this seems incredibly trivial to me and something that really does not matter at all.

You need to get formal support in place, not rely on your already overstretched daughters who are in no way obliged to care for you.

Swallowsong Smileless is spot on in her comments and I hope that you can take her thoughts on board.

You then need to plan a way forward for YOU to change the nature of the relationship. Start thanking her, showing appreciation, praising small successes, buying small treats as thankyous for all she does. And think about how it must feel to her when you "ask her not to visit"!! She should feel she is welcome/able to and more importantly wants to visit not just to "look after you" but whenever she wants to just to see each other. Why are you "excluding" her when you say you want a relationship with her? Why does it matter what she lists you as in her phone? It is hardly the key matter in this difficult situation is it?

I think that counselling to help you to unpick YOUR thinking on this whole situation would be helpful. You need to change your focus from what your daughter has not done/achieved to all that she has done (for you and for herself) and achieved.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this thread honestly.

Terrible abuse during daughters key development years, you havent said if this was her actual father.

Your worry about divoce being frowned on and struggling for money as a key factor in your decision.

The fact that daughter didnt get mental health help to cope with this until her 40s.... Something that should habe happened under your care so much sooner.

All the things I know your daughter must struggle with due to her childhood due to my own experience and the experience of other abused AC i know.

The fact that she still does so much for you.

I hope you are still reading and listening amd you are going to put your daughter first in future...

She is still in your life and its not too late but i have to tell you this:

If it were your daughter here saying all of this I would tell her she had no obligation to continue this relationship at all...

Please fix this

This sounds very similar to my experience with my own mother, who is now getting frail. She sat and did nothing for years whilst my father abused me, once leaving me unconscious. She said he could have been sent to prison for the level of abuse he committed but she decided he wouldn't go to prison because 'we' needed his maintenance payments more so we wouldn't end up in a council house with us attending a state school as opposed to the independent school we were at.
I look back on this now and shudder to see how my mother put economic status ahead of the wellbeing and safety of her own daughter. It reeks of narcissism.
My mother has also never emotionally nurtured me and my siblings. Never shown much engagement or curiosity in how we live or our internal world's. It has felt like a desert of the heart.
Now when I see her, she puts me on the backfoot as soon as I enter the house by making some disparaging remark such as, "We wouldn't get on if we lived together" when I've attempted to open a jar for her in a way she doesn't like. This implies she's considered whether she could live in my house and has then dismissed the idea because clearly I'm a total failure.
I've also had the "You're not the marrying kind" jibe thrown at me. Her passive aggressive crazy making isn't worth entertaining. She has A LOT of apologising to do but she never will and so I do what needs to be done out of duty and obligation, not from a place of love.
When I ask her whether she really wanted children, she'll tell, "I wanted you so much!"
The thing is, she had us.....but we've never had her. She's been absent of responsibility and emotional accountability every chance she can get.
So, if you are the mother reading this, it doesn't matter how old you are. You need to grow up, but your big girl pants on and write that full hearted letter of admission and apology. You are in stalemate with your daughter because there is something deeply unresolved. It's your unwillingness to admit you've been a failure.
Your daughter is not a failure. I'd say anyone hosting a refugee has got to be a kind soul who's engaged with life.
Grow up.