11+ Tutor for my GDD

Mamie

My GD is in Kent and chose not to go to grammar school. She went through the secondary system, got a clutch of A*s and is at a leading Russell Group university. She outperformed all her friends at grammar; many of the heavily coached for 11+ in primary could not keep up when they got there.
I think it is useful to learn the techniques for 11+, but over- coaching is a seriously bad idea.
Kent has some excellent secondary schools.

This
And I’m with JaneJudge, I despise the grammar school system. Good comprehensives for all. Elitism at 11 stinks

I'm not keen on coaching because it takes up even more of the day with school work. On the other hand DD was doing 15 hours a week gymnastics after school so she didn't have much free time any way. I know she had tutor for her eldest for while but most of his problems were down to his ADHD so the poor woman wasn't terribly successful.

To be honest I hadn't realised grammar schools were still such a thing. DD did once admit that her headmaster had wanted to put her in for the entrance exam for the local private school. She didn't bother to tell us because she didn't like the uniform!

I think many people of our age think it is still a way for children from poorer families to access higher education.
It really isn't like that any more.
Huge amounts of money are spent on coaching and private education until 11. If you look at the percentages of pupils on Free School Meals going on to grammar, they are very small. And you look at progress data many of them do not perform particularly well either.

Farmor15

Reading between the lines of OP, I wonder is she worried about how daughter and son-in-law might react to offer to pay for tutor?

She mentions that sil is always at home, daughter can't receive e-mails and when she phones she can only leave a message - sounds a bit odd. Is there another issue with the family?

Op calls him DD's OH not SiL but I wondered if there were issues too. Since she can't get emails which makes you wonder.

Deedaa

I'm not keen on coaching because it takes up even more of the day with school work. On the other hand DD was doing 15 hours a week gymnastics after school so she didn't have much free time any way. I know she had tutor for her eldest for while but most of his problems were down to his ADHD so the poor woman wasn't terribly successful.

To be honest I hadn't realised grammar schools were still such a thing. DD did once admit that her headmaster had wanted to put her in for the entrance exam for the local private school. She didn't bother to tell us because she didn't like the uniform!

In most areas it isn't, where I live there are no grammar schools and our local secondaries are generally very good. However, in areas, like Kent, where there are lots of grammars, it means the grammars tend to "cream off" the brighter pupils so the other schools are not as "comprehensive" in terms of ability. I used to live in Birmingham, there are few GSs but there is huge competition to get a place.It may have changed now but a family putting a GS down as a first choice for a child then failing to achieve it usually ended up with a school that was not popular. Hence a lot of the GS places are taken up with children from families that would be prepared to pay if they don't secure a GS place, less well off families can't make that choice. I don't know what the situation is in Kent. I agree that it is a horrible system, we should have a good comprehensive education for every child, sadly we don't!

Kent is a big county and it does depend on where you are. In the area where my family live the grammars probably take a lot of (coached) pupils who would otherwise have gone to independent schools. The secondary schools are generally very good and get a lot of university places including RG and Oxbridge. It is all a bit bonkers.

I thought 11+ had all gone We don’t have it in our area at all and definitely no grammars
I agree with those that say it’s a poor system it should be the sane wherever you live

Tutoring for the 11+ starts a long time before actually sitting the exam. Probably the previous year.

We live in a selective system area. Neither of my GC’s had tutors, many of their friends did. It wasn’t individual, they were in groups, goodness knows what private tuition cost.

DS and DIL felt that if the children couldn’t ‘pass’ without tutoring, so be it, but they both did ‘pass’.

And the exam nowadays bears no resemblance to the one I and many on GN took, back in the 50’s and 60’s.

I don’t think I would pass nowadays.

BlueBelle

I thought 11+ had all gone We don’t have it in our area at all and definitely no grammars
I agree with those that say it’s a poor system it should be the sane wherever you live

No, it most definitely hasn't all gone. Some areas (like Kent) have traditional selection, while Essex has four grammar schools, which are super-selective. There are other areas with super-selective grammar schools too. People on county borders can play the system.

Mamie

I think many people of our age think it is still a way for children from poorer families to access higher education.
It really isn't like that any more.
Huge amounts of money are spent on coaching and private education until 11. If you look at the percentages of pupils on Free School Meals going on to grammar, they are very small. And you look at progress data many of them do not perform particularly well either.

I once did a Freedom of Information request to ask how many pupils in the four Essex grammar schools were in receipt of pupil premium. The answer was 11 in total in all year groups, which is hardly any. The national average is about 25%.

BlueBelle

The schools must be very poor if they cannot teach children to pass the 11 + without extra tutoring I m no brain box but passed my 11+ Without any extra help

The nature of the system when I was young didn't work on the basis of passing the examination as such.

It worked on the basis of there being a certain number of grammar school places in the area, nb for boys and ng for girls, and those went to the pupils who, in effectively two separate competitions, even if the school was coeducational, got the most marks in the 11+ examination.

In some areas 25% of pupils went to grammar school, in some areas only 10%. It just depended on what was available locally.

I remember one boy got a late offer of a place, though before the end of the summer term at primary school, so perhaps someone who was due to go to the grammar school moved to another area, so the next person on the list then "passed" the 11+ to fill the thus vacated classroom chair.

So not eveybody could "pass" however good all the teachers in all of the primary school may have been.

Although the popular parlance was widely about "passing the 11+" I think that the theory was of making appropriate decisions for the best type of life for the child or some such ... er ... way of putting it.

In some areas 25% of pupils went to grammar school, in some areas only 10%. It just depended on what was available locally.

Yes, that's why it was an unfair system. I believe there were more grammar school places available for boys than girls, at least in our area.
However, the secondary modern schools in our area were very good too.

Here in Trafford we have several non-fee paying grammar schools. Two in Altrincham, one in Sale, one here in Urmston, one in Stretford. The 11+ exams are not compulsory, it’s up to the parents whether to put their child forward or not.

The 11+ has always been norm referenced by gender rather than criterion referenced, so really there's not a "pass mark" as such. If there are 200 places for girls they just take the girls with the top 200 marks, hence the need to coach. It's a very different to the 11+ that I took in the 60's as about 25% of pupils went to GS. Kent is unusual though as it has a lot of GSs and some which are partially selective. Kent currently takes 35% of each years transitioning pupils so effectively it's much easier to get a GS place than in other counties but again it will depend on where a child lives. I think school is about more than just academic success so it's not always an easy choice for parents.

Isn't it a bit late in the day to be hiring a tutor for the 11+ exam? Surely, this child should have had extra tuition throughout the academic year? I also agree with others, if she passes with the help of a tutor how will she cope at grammar school generally or does the OP intend to fund a tutor permanently?

We weren't even informed when the 11+ exam would actually be; we went to school as usual on the day to be told, in class, to line up by the door and then make our way to the main hall where we were to sit the exam. There was no prior announcement to pupils or parents.

H1954

Isn't it a bit late in the day to be hiring a tutor for the 11+ exam? Surely, this child should have had extra tuition throughout the academic year? I also agree with others, if she passes with the help of a tutor how will she cope at grammar school generally or does the OP intend to fund a tutor permanently?

It is possible that some people who had a private tutor would have got into grammar school without one.

I remember back in the 1950s there were regular advertisements,

> He's passed, thanks to Mercer's

with a cartoon of a boy and two parents, all smiling.

I have no idea what Mercer's actually did.

I also remember, following a decision by Middlesex (where's tha gone? ) to abolish the 11+ in Middlesex, a cartoon of a removal van with the driver asking "Where to?" and a small boy answering "Anywhere in Middlesex."

My grandchildren have all gone to free grammar schools in the next county. They all had to sit the entrance exams. Boys’ places were awarded in order of merit. Girls simply had to pass, then offers were made to those living nearest, so each year it just depended how many others lived nearer.
The education has certainly suited three out of the four. Two of them had some tutoring, just really to prepare them for the type of tests, as there was no preparation in their primary school, being over the border.
I think the OP’s problem is that she seems to want to control what happens. The child needs the support of their parents so she needs to make sure they are fully on board. If they are, she could pay the tutor direct.

It's really an issue that you need to talk through with your DD and surely up to the parents to vet any tutor. I would ask if they are considering a tutor. If so then you can offer to make a contribution. That way you manage expectations and can't be liable for the whole cost, should it be more than you are willing to pay.

I do a lot of private tutoring. Children that I tutor come for a range of reasons. Some because they or their parents want them to excel. Some because they need help with a specific topic/area. Some because they are behind at school. Some because they just need a bit of 121 work to help them confidence wise.

I think if you can afford a tutor, why not? But I also think you should leave it to the parents to sort out and just hand over the money.

I agree entirely with GagaJo's post of 12.07. Don't override your daughter's wishes in this.

What about the GDD? How does she feel about it?