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What's this scheme called please

(241 Posts)
Kate1949 Tue 23-Aug-22 09:49:48

Hello everyone. This may not be very clear but my DH has asked me to ask Gransnetters. There is a 'scheme' whereby you can put something in place which means you don't lose your home if you have to go into care. We can't remember what it's called. Does anyone know? Thanks.

Doodledog Thu 25-Aug-22 17:10:49

Barmeyoldbat

No I am afraid it’s not fair but that is the way it is at the moment and something needs to be done to make it a fairer system for all from those with low assets to to those with more. So I make no apologies to anyone on this thread for having undertaken to protect some of my assets.

No need to apologise to me smile).

Germanshepherdsmum Thu 25-Aug-22 17:22:56

Yes Doodledog, if Mr D died, not having needed care, and left his half share to the children, that would be theirs and would not be taken into account if you subsequently needed care. Similarly with any money or other assets he had left to them in his will. And the positions of A, B and C and the children are as you describe.

It’s entirely fair and reasonable for a couple to split their assets between them and this has not, so far as I’m aware, been criticised here. If they were to divorce there would likely be a 50/50 split. There is no wrongdoing at all.

No, it’s probably not fair that A has spent all her money on designer clothes and flash holidays and the taxpayer pays for her care. And it’s probably not fair that a couple have split their assets and the taxpayer bails them out too. Nor, probably is it fair that the very prudent B is subsiding both of them and her children inherit very little. But we will never, in the foreseeable future, have a system which requires nobody to pay for their care other than through their taxes. Then we will be asking if it’s fair that a stay at home mother who has hardly worked at all outside the home, even after her children had flown the nest, should receive care at the expense of those who had worked full time from leaving school until (even after) retirement age. There never will be ‘fair’ unless we descend into a communist state. Spare me from that!

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 17:30:04

There is a middle way, a fair cap on fees

Germanshepherdsmum Thu 25-Aug-22 17:36:47

That will mean the taxpayer paying even more. Is that what you want for your children and grandchildren? I don’t.

oodles Thu 25-Aug-22 18:04:37

Another 'wheeze' some people think will work is giving their house to their children, now this has a number of drawbacks ...... another drawback can be that if that child's spouse divorces them then the value of the portion of the property that that child owns is taken as a marital asset to be taken into account in a divorce settlement, could be a tricky situation
Am I right that if you do give your children £x amount per year hoping to live beyond 7 years to keep it out of inheritance tax, it has to be from income not from savings, if so that is a sort of protection against deprivation of assets maybe.

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 18:07:23

Life is not fair

Lathyrus Thu 25-Aug-22 18:17:56

You can give as much as you want from income and it will not be subject to Inheritance Tax.

You can give up to £3000 a year in total from savings and this will not be counted in Inheritance Tax. (That not 3000 to one person, 3000 to another, it’s the total)

You can give as much of your savings as you want but then the seven year Inheritance Tax applies. Full amount given subject to Tax in the first year, less in the second year and so on.

But Inheritance Tax is something quite separate to deprivation of assets. Inheritance Tax happens after the person dies. Deprivation of Assets is when money is given away to avoid paying for care or taxes.

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 18:24:26

GSM just wondered have you ever lived in a communist country? Well I have and you shouldn’t knock it until you have

Lathyrus Thu 25-Aug-22 18:34:45

Germanshepherdsmum

If you make a will leaving your house to someone else on condition that your spouse can continue to live there, the will only comes into operation when you die and therefore no longer require care. In the meantime you continue to own it. If before you die you need care, the house will be included in your assets for the purpose of assessing care fees. The terms of the will are irrelevant. The spouse won’t be turned out but the local authority will place a charge on the house to recover unpaid fees (plus interest) when the spouse leaves. The person to whom the house was left in the will won’t get it unless they can pay off the care fees debt.

The LA won’t place a charge on the house while the spouse or legal partner still lives there

From the Government website.

Deferred Payments Section 2:4

“Providing your partner lives in your home as their main or only residence the local authority should exclude the value of your home when it assess your finances.
This means that you should not face having to sell your home to pay for care and *will not need a deferred payment agreement.” (my bold)

So there’s no charge on the house while one partner is still living there, not even as a debt to be paid later.

Not arguing with you GSM, but I think it’s important to get it from the horses mouth as it were

Lathyrus Thu 25-Aug-22 18:35:07

Oh it didn’t bold, sorry.

Doodledog Thu 25-Aug-22 18:43:03

So yet another anomaly is that couples and singles are treated differently?

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 19:10:10

Well there you go.

Lathyrus Thu 25-Aug-22 19:12:21

Yup, singles get it in the neck all the time?

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 19:17:51

Yep about the only thing you get is a reduction in council tax smile

Doodledog Thu 25-Aug-22 19:24:59

I just can’t see how there is so much moral certainty surrounding a system that seems to me arbitrary.

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Aug-22 19:32:41

It will never change

GrannySeaside51 Fri 26-Aug-22 11:37:05

Hi! I’ve just seen your question. I would recommend that you see a good solicitor who specialises in Trusts and Estates and also check they are a member of Solicitors for the Elderly. They can recommend what options you might have.

pascal30 Fri 26-Aug-22 12:18:52

volver

I'm Spartacus ?

As for having care at home and paying for it? Good luck with that. I speak from experience.

I am about to move 120 miles from my husband into rented accommodation, because even if you pay for it, there is no care to be had at home for my DF. So I have to do it. This is not how I had planned for my sixties to be.

What a country.

I'm really sorry to hear that Volver. Many best wishes for your future..X

Witzend Fri 26-Aug-22 12:23:47

Lathyrus

You can give as much as you want from income and it will not be subject to Inheritance Tax.

You can give up to £3000 a year in total from savings and this will not be counted in Inheritance Tax. (That not 3000 to one person, 3000 to another, it’s the total)

You can give as much of your savings as you want but then the seven year Inheritance Tax applies. Full amount given subject to Tax in the first year, less in the second year and so on.

But Inheritance Tax is something quite separate to deprivation of assets. Inheritance Tax happens after the person dies. Deprivation of Assets is when money is given away to avoid paying for care or taxes.

You can also backdate that £3k for one year, so a £6k gift allowance per person.

Coco51 Fri 26-Aug-22 12:35:01

you mean Tenants in Common - Joint owners means you both own the property and upon the death of one the ownership passes to the other

Barmeyoldbat Fri 26-Aug-22 12:47:18

Grannyseaside, that’s what we did and they were excelllent.

ruthiek Fri 26-Aug-22 12:58:21

Tbh I think you should look after yourself , have seen too many people
Lose their home which they have scrimped abd saved for and been next door in a home to someone who has saved nothing for their old age - not because they can’t because they wouldn’t !

Grantanow Fri 26-Aug-22 12:59:36

There are moral issues in paying for care and it depends where you start from. Those who pay for care are usually cross-subsidizing those who are funded by Councils because Councils won't pay the full rate and thus care homes charge private payers more to balance their accounts. Those who are being Council-funded may have never had the money available through lack of income in their working lives, some will have simply spent their income and have no savings and others through living longer will have paid their way until their money ran out and the Council had to pay. In some cases Councils insist the person moves to a less-expensive room or even another, cheaper home, all this at all advanced age. And of course some people resent paying as they want to leave money to help their children or grandchildren. My opinion is that everyone should receive free care when they need it just like the NHS. Those who have earned more in their working lives have usually paid more tax. Why should they have to pay again for care?

volver Fri 26-Aug-22 13:07:59

ruthiek

Tbh I think you should look after yourself , have seen too many people
Lose their home which they have scrimped abd saved for and been next door in a home to someone who has saved nothing for their old age - not because they can’t because they wouldn’t !

If you are not living in your home any more why should you want to keep it?

Morag65 Fri 26-Aug-22 13:45:37

Katie speak to a solicitor. Under Scottish law a trust has to be in place for 6 months. But council can go back 7 years if they think the trust was set up to avoid paying for care. Hope that helps.

You work all your days to leave a legacy to your family. Care should be free. Its paid in taxes all the years you work.