DH being taken advantage of by brother

Both the properties DD has owned were/are ex council properties. However each was bought on the open market and she sold one to buy the other. She paid the full market price for both.

Ex wife of a friend of mine openly stated a few weeks ago she was trying to get a council tenancy for her daughter on the flat underneath one she already owns (sold to her by the previous owner who was originally a council tenant) to enable her buy it after the mandatory 'waiting' period. And then rent it out privately for a much larger rent. Unscrupulous.

I'm not going to add much to what has already been said other than I am not sure what the OP is compaining about. They agreed to let BiL and his wife live in the house rent free as her carers until MiL died and then to pay £400 pm thereafter which he is doing.

M0nica's comment reminded me of this 2016 radio programme Whose Right to Buy Is It Anyway?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07gfjhr

Simon Cox goes on the trail of the fraudsters and the companies seeking to make big bucks out of right to buy. He discovers people trying to buy homes they're not entitled to and criminals attempting to launder drugs money.

He investigates companies who offer tenants help to buy their home in order to get their hands on valuable properties.

I am very concerned that you have told him he can live there as long as he wants. I think he has a contract and you have very few options.
Suggest you see a solicitor to see if you have any at all.
I don't think he will get rent from the universal credit system as the house is owned by a close relative.

Let’s be honest about this. It was never really to do with giving mother in law peace of mind but an opportunity to make a good investment and unethically take advantage of the sloppy right to buy process. A ready made tenant was supposed to be a bonus.

I’m really not sure why OP seems upset about brother in law not paying rent for 8 years. Presumably much of that time he was living with mother in law in a property legally owned by her and if she didn’t expect him to pay rent I’m not sure why you should. Unless it’s because you regard it as being your house since the day your money bought it.

It was a contrived purchase to benefit you and your husband and any tenancy with your brother in law as tenant is very likely to be seen by The benefits people as a contrived tenancy. Which is what it is.

I once had a close relation as a tenant and I had to jump through many fiery hoops to convince the council (in housing benefit days) that it was a proper tenancy and not a contrived one. And the background to my story was nothing like yours.

This probably sounds harsh but I find it hard to have sympathy for avarice gone wrong. Your brother in law wouldn’t have been made homeless had the house still been owned by the council when mother in law died as he would have been rehoused in an appropriately sized property. Since the bedroom tax penalty was introduced it is very hard indeed for anyone dependent on benefit help with rent to afford any property with any spare bedrooms. Perhaps this is why the nephew is making an appearance.

If the Council had a very elderly tenant on a low income wanting to buy her council house, and [resumably payimg cash.

Don't they have a responsibility here for not having done due diligence and enquired where the purchase money was coming from and whether a child was providing it.

They are quick enough to demand their pound of flesh when assessing an elderly persons, pension and assets when assessing them for contributions towards their care.

🤣🤣🤣. How true!

Hithere

The purpose, the execution of the plan..... set up to fail from the very beginning

This explains well. Salty language alert, because - picture from salty brother.

Hithere

The purpose, the execution of the plan..... set up to fail from the very beginning

Perfect summary.

Nobody, other than of over state retirement age, can claim housing benefit anymore. It is a legacy benefit. Housing costs are now claimed as part of Universal credit as part of the efforts to roll all benefits into one, wage like payment for claimants. I am sorry your BiL is being difficult, but I really do not approve of taking social housing out of the stock, and your claims of not being wealthy, and not planning on selling, and just trying to calm your late MiL's fears just do not ring true with me, sorry. I used to work with a woman who suddenly decided to 'calm her parents' worries about their rent' by buying their council house for them....when they were in their late 80s. Hmm. Yet another desperately needed home taken out of stock.

The purpose, the execution of the plan..... set up to fail from the very beginning

I question your motives in buying this house. Pensioners are entitled to housing benefit, plus if their mobility changes they can be rehoused in something more suitable. I had a friend who did this, it meant that his dying eighty year old mother had to climb stairs until the end of her life. But when they died, hey presto he had a house. Bought with all the discount they had accumulated over the tenancy. Presumably you will have gained the equity accumulated over the eight years and benefitted hugely from the discount. I am not even sure it is legal to buy a council house that you yourself don’t live in, but even if it is, it’s morally wrong, and from a moral standpoint I don’t think you should be charging rent and should sell it back to the council.

This is sounding horribly as though you have given him a lifetime tenancy.

Dee1012

Have you checked locally that Housing Benefit will / are paying the housing costs?
Perhaps worth looking into....I do know someone who wanted to rent a property to her sister and there was quite a struggle as her local council wanted to view it as a 'contrived tenancy'.

Yes, we were aware of this which is why we set the rent so low as we knew he would not likely get housing benefit. This was all discussed between the whole family at the time of purchase. The deal was he could live there rent free whilst ever MIL was alive as he (or rather his wife) was her carer. MIL willed the house to us and we said once probate went through he would have to start paying rent but that we would keep it affordable for him and he could live there as long as he wanted. The plan was that we personally would not benefit, but eventually the house would be sold on our deaths and our beneficiaries would maintain the same arrangement with BIL and only sell the house on his death or if he went into a care home. We kept our end of the arrangement as did MIL We naively assumed BIL would keep his end of the deal as he would be the biggest loser if we were forced to evict him and sell. We honestly thought that he would recognise what we were doing for him and keep his side of the agreement.

Despite my disapproval of the whole business I will give you a word of advice - assuming that you insure the building rather than leaving it to your unreliable brother in law, make sure you have a landlord’s insurance policy, not an owner occupier’s, or you will have no cover if the building is damaged by the usual ‘insured risks’.

I totally agree with GSM here. Why was the fact that the money for the house purchase was given to the mother to buy it not declared in the original post?? Yes, a tenancy exists whether you have documentary proof or not; it sounds to me that the OP did not have good financial advice in the first place. It's a mess and one that could have been avoided.

I dont think you're allowed to take housing benefits from a relative ,its assumed as family you'll make other arrangements with them for rent .The benefits agency ,ight want their money back when they find out its been rented and claimed for by your OH's brother

You would have saved a lot of supposition and questions by giving the full picture. I hope the tenancy agreement has been prepared by a solicitor.
A lot of people disapprove of property being taken out of the council housing stock in this way. The fact that many have done it doesn’t make it right. Your brother in law is living in a house which would have provided a home for a family who are currently homeless or living in substandard accommodation.

Germanshepherdsmum

Another case of not hearing the whole story at the outset.

Didn’t want to bore people to death… 😂

Oh I forgot to mention, the tenancy could not be transferred to the son as it had already been moved from late FIL to MIL and only one transfer is allowed, which is why my MIL was worried in the first place that her youngest son would be forced to move on her death.

In response to other questions. The rent was agreed at £400 a month. In the local area the starting price for property is £750 for a two bed, this is a three bed semi. Yes, we could have bought the house and it could have been shared between my husband his siblings, and yes we will ultimately benefit if the property is sold, but we did not buy it to sell it. Furthermore, we bought it by making huge sacrifices, we are not rolling in it. We all (the whole family) had lengthy conversations before we did anything and everyone agreed. We felt it was a win win, my MIL would no longer be paying rent, we met all repair costs, MIL desperately wanted to carry on living there an not be at risk of having to move and for her youngest son to continue living in the home he had always lived in. He knew he would not be able to afford to live in a comparable house without this arrangement. Yes, we bought what had been council housing stock, as have many others.

Another case of not hearing the whole story at the outset.

We own the house. We gave MIL the money to buy the house outright and in return she left it to us in her will. It was all done properly through Solicitors and there was a lien on the house so that it the house had to be sold to meet her care costs then we would get back the money we had paid. The arrangement was that my BIL and his wife would live there rent free whilst she was alive as they were her main carers. We wanted to lessen her financial burden and give her some additional disposable income. It didn’t quite work out like that, but that’s a different story. We have sorted out a tenancy agreement, but had to wait for probate etc to go through. The plan is to do everything properly for all our sakes. I should have sent them the tenancy agreement a couple of weeks ago but have been unwel as there is some uncertainty as to who is going on. Sister-in-Law keeps threatening to leave (understandably enough) unless the idle lump of a BIL sorts his act out. I think we are going to have to consult with a solicitor again and find out what our options are. I can’t believe BIL though, we have offered him exactly what he said he wanted and he is too idle to meet his end of the deal. Sadly, we may end up selling in the longer term.

No.

Thank you for that GSM.

Can however a purely family deed be drawn up with terms and conditions of a family member staying in the O/P's house and "paying towards it"?